097 - Inside the Boudoir, Intimate Photography with Jody & Dawn at Black Swan
Jody: [00:00:00] I believe that if there's something that they let us see that they need to see in themselves every day and we put that up on a piece of artwork that they walk by every day. And maybe like the first couple times they walk by it, they get that funny feeling in their stomach and they're like, "Oh, that is me." But to wake up and have that confidence with you every day, it would just change everything. And in in boudoir, I know that's like what we're focusing on, but Dawn and I photograph a lot of things. Well, people weddings, events and stuff. And to know that out there in the world, people have those. And like I helped create that for them.
I, I don't think there's anything better, what an honor.
Rebecca: Hey you, thanks for tuning in just a quick heads up this episode is rated R so expect that there will be some language that you may not want your kids to hear lots of adult topics and quite possibly some explicit conversations of about [00:01:00] sex. This episode is probably not safe for work though. You know, I guess it depends on where you work.
What to expect in this episode...
Shawn: [laughs]. Okay. Go. Hello, Radiant Rebecca.
Rebecca: Hey there, Sean.
Shawn: This is such an exciting episode. You're talking to Jody and Dawn from Black Swan, uh, Photography.
Rebecca: Yes, I am.
Shawn: I really like this episode because there, well, there's so many things that you guys get to talk about and I just thought we'd maybe talk about what people can expect as they listen to this.
Rebecca: I think that's a great idea. I think, especially jumping into an episode like this, where there's a lot of potential for discomfort and some feelings that you may not be used to feeling it's helpful to know what you're getting yourself into.
Shawn: That actually sounds like a lead into why somebody should do boudoir photography actually [laughs]. So this is when, when, when I first listened to this episode, what I thought was really interesting about it is that it seems to me that there is clearly a level of authenticity and vulnerability, just being [00:02:00] naked in front of a camera. What I love about you and about the show that we've done together and, and the other podcasts that we haven't done together that you've recorded is the level of authenticity that you bring to the podcast and to your life. And so what I was hoping we could talk about in this introduction is how that authenticity and vulnerability shows up inside of the boudoir photography. So when I think of boudoir photography in the past, I've always thought of, you know, somebody wants to give some sexy photos to a partner, maybe just something to look good for a website or whatever, right?
But I've imagined the level of vulnerability that there must be when one is taking photos that they're gonna give to a partner.
Rebecca: Naked photos.
Shawn: Naked photos that they're gonna give to a partner. And... I can imagine for myself what kind of apprehension I might feel and therefore somebody else might feel when they're doing that. I can also think about the level of vulnerability with having it done, like with being naked in front of the photographer, seems to me that that's [00:03:00] something that both of those things would be hurdles and obstacles that I could see myself. Not that anybody would wanna see that.
Rebecca: [laughs]. Oh, come on, you're a good looking guy.
Shawn: [laughs] when doing boudoir photography.
Rebecca: [laughs].
Shawn: What I loved about this episode was that I think that the episode points out a level of vulnerability with one's self, because you can see the nakedness, inside of the nakedness of the photograph, you can see what your, you can get a little glimpse of what yourself is actually like. And I, and I did air quotes when I said self inside the studio here, because you can, you can see a lot level of authenticity that you can't see with clothes on sometimes with a mask on.
Rebecca: And that you can't see in the mirror. I think that's the other piece is that when we see ourselves through the lens of somebody else's camera, we see things that we don't normally project into our mirror, and there's a sort of truth and honesty and authenticity there that can be very surprising.
Shawn: The look in the eyes, [00:04:00] the look on the face, the body posture, the whole works that's yeah. I can see how that would definitely be really interesting.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Shawn: This is a great episode. And I think what people are gonna enjoy is not only the interview that you have with Jodi and Don, but also the takeaways that you got out of it. And so enjoy this one, everybody.
Interview begins
Rebecca: Here we go. Well, hello, Dawn and Jody. Welcome to Pleasure Central Radio.
Dawn: Hi, thank you.
Jody: Hi, thanks for having us.
Rebecca: So, I had just asked Dawn to explain what means and how to actually pronounce it, and then I hadn't hit record, but I would love to hear you say one more time, boudoir.
Dawn: It is. It's a boudoir. I haven't researched it, but I'm fairly certain. I'm sure someone who speaks French out there is yelling at the radio right now. It's boudoir [laughs] but yes, and it just means bedroom in French, but you know how everything in France seems so much m- fancier than, than elsewhere. And so I a picture it as, [00:05:00] uh, ladies getting ready room and all the beautiful fabrics, the silks, everything feminine and lovely with the little perfume bottles that are maybe the antique gorgeous glass ones and a beautiful looking mirror and all that.
And so the boudoir photography part is just, um, me being an invited into her room and taking photos of her in her natural setting, getting ready and being relaxed and beautiful. And then being able to show those photos to the rest of the world and show the everybody else how beautiful she is.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative], my very first boudoir experience was v- very early in, in this career. And I was looking to get some good photos to put on my website. And I had gotten a bunch of photos from some people who were interesting, but there was this one person who actually had a setup. They had lights, they had backdrops, they had all kinds of interesting costumes and they wanted a model for something. And I [00:06:00] walked away from that photo shoot so impressed with both of us. The way he was able to call out my playful, sexy side and the eye contact that he helped me get with a camera. Like n- no one had ever explain some of those things to me, no one had ever explained how to hold my hands and look amazing. But the confidence in being able to see myself and see myself like that impacted the rest of my career. I'm, I'm a 100% sure about that.
Dawn: Amazing. I love hearing that, Jody's bursting. She wants to say something that's just makes us our heart sing. Doesn't it?
Jody: Yeah. Yeah. That's my, that's my soul. Like, that's what I hope. Every woman that comes across our, our camera, that they would feel that way. And you talked about boudoir being like the bedroom, but I think of it more of a abstract idea and that like, you don't let just anybody in your room, so it's a really intimate place. Right? And these [00:07:00] people, women are allowing us in this intimate, safe place with them.
And that's such an honor, like, wow, like you're gonna let me into that place with you. And at the end of it, hopefully they away. And they see everything about them that maybe they're not seeing.
Rebecca: So you asked me a question at that party and I wanted to turn it back on both of you. You asked me to share a mountaintop moment in my career and I would love to hear one from each of you. What is that peak where you look back and you say, "Oh yeah, this is why I'm doing this."
Jody: Well, I think last night was a really good moment. So I've had a boudoir brand for 12 years and building Black Swan with Dawn is new. And so we're getting new mountaintop moments in there. So last night [00:08:00] was like, she, we do a thing called a discovery call and she told me why she wanted to do boudoir photography. And it resonated with me because she was leaving something from her old life and coming into a new place where she could show her body in a way.
And I f- like be free in that. And she was so excited when she left the room and just that feeling of her being okay with that and knowing that it was safe and it was a great experience for her and the confidence that she had. And like she turned it on and she never turned it off in that room at all. She did not come in there with like any kind of outfits that would hide who she is at all, not even a little bit.
And I kind of expected her to, honestly, I hate that I put expectations on her, but I did. And she didn't, she just came in with like this lacey beautiful stuff that revealed everything and it was pretty good.
Dawn: Yeah. She [00:09:00] was all in. It was fabulous. In the very beginning, she was a bit reserved. She actually was texting her husband and during hair and makeup. And I said, you know, do you need anything? Are you okay? She goes, "Oh, she goes, my husband said that I, if I was scared or nervous or needed him to come get me, that he would."
And, and I said, are you okay then? And she says, 'Oh my gosh, I am definitely, okay. This is incredible. I'm so happy I did this 'cause I was nervous." She said she couldn't sleep two nights before because she was nervous. And um, yeah, she was so incredible during her shoot. I just kept asking her things like, "Would you like to do this or this would you like to wear this or that?"
And every answer was, what do you think? She's just wide open. Let's do this. Yeah. I likened it to a l- lady on her wedding day. She was s- so energetic and, and vivacious and alive. It was amazing. She was on cloud nine.
Yeah. It was [00:10:00] incredible. It was, I was so proud of her at the end. We all high fived and cheered and she actually [inaudible 00:10:09]. It was adorable. [laughs].Yeah. It was really fun.
Jody: Yeah.
Dawn: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Jody: It was, it was good. It was good. And I, I don't know. I loved it. That was definitely mountaintop moment for me.
Dawn: Yeah.
Rebecca: And what do you get out of that experience?
Jody: Um, I think, I think I just like feels my heart, like to watch her walk away and know that she has that confidence and that we were allowed to be a part of that. Like, that's crazy how how's that even my life? [laughs].
Dawn: We were talking about the, um, last night this morning and I said, "Man," I said, 'cause we haven't been able to do weddings for a while with the old germs and all. But um, I said that just felt like a wedding that was amazing afterwards we [00:11:00] were all three of us just walking on clouds and um, the, the energy and the happiness.
And I said that it was actually, it was better than a wedding in that there wasn't a tight schedule, the bride or, or you know, client person wasn't worried about their guests or spilling food on themselves or giving any speeches. None of that, none of that, they, she could relax and be happy and just let us take care of her. And I even asked partway through, I said, "How are you doing? Are you good?" She goes, "Oh my gosh, this is so relaxing." Which I thought was a funny description.
Jody: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Dawn: But uh, I was really happy. That was just fabulous.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Dawn: I think you create your best art when you're relaxed so that she was able to contribute. That was fabulous.
Rebecca: Wow. Yeah, that is beautiful. And I'm glad you pointed it out like that too. That it is so much easier to be yourself and to relax and to create some kind of art we're [00:12:00] sharing, even if it's only y- yourself or your partner, but art, we're sharing art worth making when you're not worried about your lipstick coming off on the food or who you're talking to gonna make you nervous or having a little bit too much alcohol because it's going all around. Right. So yeah, so much easier to just sit back, relax and look pretty.
Dawn: And have it all be about you 'cause at wedding they always say it's all about the bride, but that bride is actually most of the time nervous about everything else. Trying to do the right thing at all times. And this, you don't have to, when you're doing a boudoir session, it really is all about you. It's so cool to be able to give that to someone is so great.
Rebecca: Yeah. Setting their inner spirit free.
Dawn: Yes.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Dawn: Agreed.
Rebecca: I love what you said when you s- said that the boudoir session changed the [projectory 00:12:51] of your, your career and gave you that confidence that you needed. And I feel like that's my hope. Like that's what I would like that if you could give that to somebody or [00:13:00] help them see that, 'cause I don't know that we give it to them 'cause I think it's like already in them. We just kinda coach it out of them I guess.
Dawn: Yeah. Help them see it. That's what I love about offering wall art too though, is that you get that feeling, but it's easy to let it fade or forget about it, but to be able to see it every day on your wall, you wake up, you're in your yoga pants, your hair's funky, whatever we all, you know, uh, and then to be able to see it and be like, "Yes I do rock. I can rock this. I got this." It gets you through all kinds of different moments and gives you that warm feeling all over again.
Rebecca: Yeah, it really does. Yeah. I think you pointing out that you don't make them have it. You don't, you bring it out of them. I think that's an important piece because for me, I think the photos that struck me the most were the ones where I made eye contact [00:14:00] with a camera and I actually looked sultry and sexy. Like there was, there was a part of my personality coming out of the photo that I don't usually get to see 'cause I don't make eyes at my, myself in the mirror the way I do with a lover. But I was making eyes at the camera so that I was able to see the way my lover actually sees me.
Jody: That's really cool. I know we learn that women that come in to pick out their photos for the majority don't want photos of them looking directly at the camera. They choose the looking away or looking down their body line. Cl- their eyes closed pretty often. It's pretty popular, but the men or their spouse or whoever come in with them, want the photos of them looking directly at the camera and making that eye contact. And I think that that's like natural, right? 'Cause if that's your partner and that's who your lover is, they wanna be connected to you. And if you close [00:15:00] your eyes then it's a way of you like shutting that out, right?
Rebecca: Yeah.
Jody: I love that. You actually loved your photos of yourself looking at the camera. That's a twist. I really-
Dawn: I love that too.
Jody: ... wanna, yeah, that's really cool.
Rebecca: And well, there might be a psychological component to that too, because it was happening at a time in my life where I was stepping out from being married. I was becoming more independent on my own. I was creating my own for the well really it was the first time it was a really successful business. And so a lot of my personal confidence came out in those photos and I think that's what I really, really liked and was attracted to.
Dawn: Do you look at them still?
Rebecca: Sometimes still yeah. Some of them are still on my website. I, I have had multiple photo shoots with that photographer since, and he's been good every time. And then I've worked with some other people as well since then. And they're all, they're a little bit different. I feel like he and [00:16:00] I had the best chemistry with the authentic connection and some of the other people who have different skills or different settings or props, like you said, the props, aren't what make the photo... [laughs] it's the connection.
Dawn: Yeah. I agree. That word connection comes up everywhere [laughs] in our business. So funny.
Rebecca: Did you wanna share a mountaintop moment though?
Jody: Well, she stole mine. So what the f- [laughs].
Rebecca: You can, you can have two, you can have another one.
Dawn: [laughs]. Uh, I think last night was so fresh is why both it immediately comes to mind. Just little moments all the time, honestly are what feels so incredible. We hear all kinds of things that I always say, "Oh my gosh, can I quote that?" And then I probably forget it later, but I'm not gonna exactly put my camera down in the middle of a session and type it out. But I haven't felt this beautiful since I had my kids two years ago, I feel more beautiful [00:17:00] today than my wedding day. Uh, I can't wait for my husband to see these, you know, that's a, that's a good one, but yeah, just all the little moments.
Rebecca: Have either one of you spent time on the other side of the camera.
Jody: So when I decided that I would focus on boudoir more, I'd let it go. Like not completely, but let it go for a long time. I asked my husband to do mine in my studio and I wanted to be completely naked and probably wouldn't do that with anybody maybe Dawn, but I don't know.
Rebecca: [laughs].
Jody: But I wouldn't do that with anybody else, but my husband, so I set up all the lighting, worked on the posing and did, uh, my first like all nude shoot. And I'm not like, they're not like the greatest works of art. [laughs] I'm like, "I need to work on the lighting." And like I see all the flaws in the photography, but to see myself [00:18:00] vulnerable and just naked and raw, like that is pretty amazing.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Jody: I, to look at my own photos, I might be conceited [laughs].
Rebecca: I don't think that that is what is required to be conceited. I think conceited is a different thing. I was a model for an oil painter years ago and he ended up paying me in a portrait of my self nude and I had it up on my living room all behind the couch for like nine years. I used to joke that everybody should have a nude painting of themselves on their prime. That painting has since found a new home, but it sounds very similar to me.
Jody: Yeah, it was, it was a really awesome experience. And um, it's funny 'cause like I would take one of those photos and print them and put them in the front window of my studio so that my clients knew that like, "Hey I'm, I'm in this fight with you too."
Dawn: Nice.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Jody: And I purposely didn't edit out all the flaws in my body. So I've [00:19:00] had four kids and I've been lots of sizes in my life and my body looks like a train wreck [laughs].
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Jody: Or no, not a train wreck. It just, it it's created the greatest works of art that my body could. Right? And I'm learning to love it. So I kept all of that in and I think it's pretty cool.
Rebecca: Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. I also like to leave in my imperfections. I feel like if it's temporary and it's not gonna be there in a week, I'll edit it out. But if it's permanent, just leave it.
Dawn: It's who you are.
Rebecca: Yeah. It's who I am. Yeah. So you guys have a very intimate work. Kind of like me, we deal a lot in intimacy in our works. How do you get someone to open up and to relax enough, to be comfortable with you at the beginning of the session?
Jody: I think it starts from the very beginning and it's super intentional [00:20:00] when you're building the brand and it's in every touch point that they have with your company. Right? And then when they get on the phone with us, we ask a lot of questions and talk to them. And then I think Dawn and I have the ability to be who we are and not pretend. And I think that helps other people be who they are and not pretend with us, but I don't know. What do you think Dawn?
Dawn: Yeah, I, it's kind of interesting to think about that question because I just, my answer is only that it comes naturally, which isn't really a in depth helpful answer, but I guess maybe 'cause we've been doing this so long and we feel super comfortable in the studio and with everything that we're doing. So it just becomes so fun. You see their concerns and worries melt away within just a few minutes, almost four or five minutes of standing in front of the camera and all of a sudden they're, "How about this [00:21:00] pose and what do you think of this? And let's do that."
And I'm like, "Yeah, let's do this." Yeah. And the, the two hours, which is an average shoot, just melt away so fast. It's incredible.
Rebecca: So it sounds like the secret to your intimacy is very intentional, thoughtful setting of the space.
Jody: Yeah, it is very intentional. And I think it's just a part of who we are, who Dawn and I are as humans. Like that's what we care about.
Dawn: Yeah. I'm super curious about people. I've always looked at people as like a walking into a library and pulling out a book and everybody has the story inside. And so to slowly turn each page one at a time and find out who people are, is really fun and amazing, especially to find out who they are before the photo session. So they know what to expect. We know what to expect, we know where they're coming from and what they're looking for and make it completely personal and unique to them. That's a real special [00:22:00] gift that we are happy to share with people.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. And, and do you find it fulfilling to have that deep of an insight into somebody's life? Even if it's for such a brief period of time?
Dawn: [laughs]. we're trying to decide who answers first, for sure. For sure. Yes. It's given very incredible mea- very incredible. [laughs] it's given incredible meaning to our, our photography. You, you are not able, I wouldn't be able to do this for as many years as we have without that connection and personal touch. Otherwise it's just a job and I couldn't continue doing that forever and feel like I'm giving something back to community. It's a really good feeling.
Jody: Yeah. I, I always say we don't cure cancer, but we do change the world. And I know that that, like, it sounds cliche and silly, but I [00:23:00] really do believe it. I believe that if there's something that they let us see, that they need to see in themselves every day. And we put that up on a piece of artwork that they walk by every day. And maybe like the first couple times they walk by it, they get that funny feeling in their stomach and they're like, "Oh, that is me." But to wake up and have that confidence with you every day, it would just change everything. And boudoir, I know that's like what we're focusing on.
But Dawn I photograph a lot of things, [laughs]. Well people weddings, events and stuff. And to know that out there in the world, people have those. And like I helped create that for them. I, I don't think there's anything better. What an honor.
Rebecca: Have you guys kept in touch with any of your former boudoir clients and seen how they've progressed?
Jody: So I have a client that was a wedding client and a boudoir [00:24:00] client and they called me on their third year anniversary. [laughs].
Rebecca: Oh.
Jody: To let me know how much they still love their wedding photos that hang above their bed and how much she loves her folio box of boudoir photos. And they still take them out and look at them. And um, yeah, and we text we're, we're friends now some of my greatest friends were clients. So yeah, I guess yes, the answer is yes. [laughs].
Rebecca: Some of mine too. My best friend started out as clients. So Dawn, do you think you're gonna take the plunge and sit on the other side of the camera at some point
Dawn: [laughs]. I don't know. I'm so comfortable on this side of the camera and I feel like that's probably an obligation of mine to be out in front of the camera. I performed ballet for 20 years of my life. I've been on stage with the audience and the lights and the costumes and the b- that's a ton of posing and dancing. So [00:25:00] I feel like I've done that already. I don't feel, I don't know. [laughs], I suppose I should.
Rebecca: You don't have to shit on yourself here. It's okay. [laughs]
Dawn: I just don't want to, [laughs] sorry.
Rebecca: [laughs].
Dawn: Don't want to, I don't know why it's so weird.
Rebecca: That's all I got.
Jody: Dawn.
Dawn: I don't hate the question. I just, I don't know the answer for myself. Isn't that weird. I'm really picky when it comes to photography and I don't know who I would, plus I'm almost 50, which really is kind of a miser [laughs].
Jody: It's probably not. Clients are thinking too, right?
Dawn: Right. Totally.
Jody: Yeah.
Rebecca: I'm 50. Nobody wants boudoir of me.
Dawn: No, not necessarily that I used to be a body builder and a ballerina. So the past body is vastly different than now and now body is fine, but it's not the one I remember or want to show off.
Rebecca: Wouldn't it be cool to fall in love with this one though?
Dawn: Oh gosh. [laughs] [00:26:00] I do love this one. It does great things. I know that, um, I've enjoyed being relaxed and not doing a hundred pushups a day and all that, and this is the result of it. And I'm fine with that. That feels great to me. I love gardening. And so, uh, uh, by default, that happens to build muscles and that's fabulous, but yeah.
Jody: I always get so defensive when people ask Dawn this question, 'cause Dawn's not only my work partner, whatever. She's also a close friend and I care deeply about her. And I'm like, y- y- she says that she doesn't want a boudoir session, but that's just not who she is. And like that's okay. You don't have to be in front of the camera in that way to attract clients or, or know what they're going through. Like=
Rebecca: Oh, yeah.
Jody: She totally gets all of it [00:27:00] and yeah, she just, she doesn't need her own session. [laughs] and that's okay. Like, I don't know. Maybe we'll work on like doing some selfies for you or something. You can just set up everything and, and do all the camera settings and we'll figure out the timer and you can take a self portrait but it doesn't have to be boudoir.
Dawn: [laughs].
Jody: And that's okay.
Dawn: Yeah. We'll see.
Jody: Yeah.
Rebecca: Totally. Okay.
Dawn: I think this is the year for adventure because of we haven't had that. We've had that freedom taken away from us as a whole entire world. And so this year will be different. And I think that could be contagious to me to see everybody else running out and doing all the things that they've been putting off, that they haven't been able to do. Getting tattoos the girl yesterday, remember?
Jody: Oh, yeah.
Dawn: She... Not, not the same... a different, um, that we had three clients yesterday. What were the three things?
Jody: [00:28:00] She was getting her tattoo. They... she partied with her coworkers. Right? And she gets to see her son?
Dawn: Different. That was the other one.
Jody: Oh.
Dawn: I remember she said it, "Now that I'm I'm realizing life is passing me by, I got a tattoo I..."
Jody: Oh. She went, she learned how to go boxing. She took up-
Dawn: Oh.
Jody: ... boxing when she was 40. She was just like, "Oh, I'm gonna do this now." And then she volunteers, what else does she do? I don't know.
Dawn: She teaches boxing to Parkinson's.
Jody: Yeah.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Seems amazing.
Dawn: Incredible. She's done quite a bit. And so honestly o- our clients are gonna teach me or encourage me without even knowing it that it's an amazing possibility and I should try it.
Rebecca: Well, I will say this when we have work, the way that we do where intimacy is so important and we learn to [00:29:00] create that space for other people. Somehow it seems to transfer over into the places where we need to have some space held for us. So I'm excited for your year and for your adventure.
Dawn: Yeah. We'll see. Yeah.
Rebecca: Yeah. Who knows what it'll look like? Maybe it won't be in front of the camera.
Dawn: Right.
Rebecca: But it doesn't matter.
Dawn: Right.
Rebecca: Well, this has been very sweet. I love having you guys here and to share some of our stories about intimacy and connection and photography and confidence. Before you leave, would you each give me one example of how you use pleasure in your day to keep yourself interested in life?
Dawn: The thing that pleases me is humor. I love coming up with something unique and different and witty to surprise [00:30:00] someone with and maybe change up their day just for that one moment, as often as I can w- when appropriate, of course, but that really gives me pleasure. Just not business wise, not anything planned just off the cuff for fun. Throw on someone for a loop, just for a moment. Humor that makes them happy. Makes me happy. That's fun. I love that.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Cool.
Jody: Can you ask the question again?
Rebecca: How do you use pleasure in your daily life?
Jody: So I feel like that changes every day, but most of the time, the thing that I found most pleasurable and found in the last six months is just taking walks, hills in Astoria. If I can have it be a perfect pleasurable thing and just putting my headphones in and listening to music and [00:31:00] just going for a walk and that's simple, but that's what I enjoy a lot.
Rebecca: Nice. That does sound like a lot of pleasure.
Jody: Yeah. We like, I always like to know, like what, what do you need in your life? What do you need to connect with and what, what do you need photographed that would like make you feel that way? Or if you could have a photography session with yourself or anyone else who would that be with and why?
Rebecca: Are you asking me?
Jody: Yeah.
Rebecca: If I could have a photography session with anyone, who would that be and why?
Jody: Yeah.
Dawn: That is such a hard question.
Rebecca: I feel like the answer is probably not gonna pass the, uh, [00:32:00] the mental a test after I think about it a lot, but the intuitive answer that keeps popping up is with an ex-partner of mine. And I don't know why that would make sense to do a photograph photo shoot with my ex-partner, but somehow I think, um, being able to see the emotions on our face as we're in the same space together would be helpful. I don't know why, but it feels like it would.
Jody: Do you feel like it would be healing? Yeah, I do. And what emotions do you think you guys would have on your face?
Rebecca: Um, patience, isn't an emotion, but whatever that looks like on a face, I think there'd be some of that.
Jody: Can you tell me about a time when you two showed each other patience?
Rebecca: If I do I'll start crying.
Jody: That's okay.
Rebecca: [laughs] yeah, there was a, a misunderstanding that we had. That was lovely. Once we figured out what the misunderstanding was.
Jody: Yeah.
Rebecca: I don't know. I don't know how many details I wanna share about it, but...
Jody: That's okay.
Rebecca: Hey [00:33:00] there, this is Rebecca. I'm recording a little snippet and extra piece to this episode because when I recorded it the first time you may have noticed I was starting to get pretty much emotional and wasn't really sure where to take Jody's question. So I want you to know that we value your willingness to listen to the show and that intimacy is an important part of this.
And in order to be intimate, I have to be at least a little bit more open and share more of what's going on with you. So what actually [00:34:00] happened is I had an ex-partner who essentially, they refused to clean up their side of the sidewalk in two of their other important romantic relationships. And the result of them not doing this is that, that I was put in the position of I'd say being the other woman, but i- not being the other woman, because I was hidden. I wasn't. It was a, a 100% consensual ethically non-monogamous relationship all the way around, but these other experiences were still tainting his main relationships and, and I could be wrong.
This may not actually be what was happening, but it put me in a very uncomfortable position and the relationship d- dynamic that was at one point pretty perfect and beautiful and well balanced [00:35:00] became imbalanced and I can't say exactly how that happened because a lot of that happened where I wasn't involved.
I just got the feeling from the way I was being treated, that it was no longer a respect based relationship. And as much as it hurt to walk away from that, I felt like I had to. So when Jody asked who I would want to be photographed with and what I would like to see, I would have liked to see us together with patience and kindness on our faces. I feel like we both went through enough and we were both doing things that we weren't familiar with. We'd never done before. We didn't know how to handle gracefully yet. And a little bit more patience. Would've gone a long way.
Jody: When you think about that, [00:36:00] and you think about the patience that you showed to each other, how does that make you feel?
Rebecca: Sad.
Jody: I'm sorry. It makes you feel sad.
Rebecca: Thank you.
Jody: Did you learn from that experience?
Rebecca: Oh yeah, of course.
Jody: Always. Right?
Rebecca: Yeah.
Jody: Patience with each other is so beautiful. And I know it is sad, but what a great gift to give each other.
Rebecca: Okay. So if I, or somebody else did want to hire you guys, how would they go about doing that?
Dawn: [laughs] we have no idea.
Rebecca: You have a website?
Jody: [laughs].[inaudible 00:36:56].
Dawn: Send a bat-signal.
Rebecca: [laughs].
Jody: We do good with bat-signals. Yes. Yeah.
Rebecca: All right.
Jody: Point it towards [inaudible 00:37:02]. That'd be [00:37:00] great.
Rebecca: Okay. Yeah.
Jody: So it would be a Swan, but yeah.
Rebecca: Oh, right. Yeah. Send us a letter with a Swan.
Jody: Yeah.
Rebecca: Okay. Swan.
Dawn: So, oh, right. Like I'll mail.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Jody: Right.
Rebecca: [laughs].
Jody: No, we have a website.
Dawn: Our website is blackswanboudoir.com. We have an Instagram handle. Is that what they call this? [laughs].
Jody: probably.
Dawn: Okay. We have an Instagram handle. It's black_swan_boudoir.
Jody: They could call us.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Dawn: [crosstalk 00:37:39] your phone number?
Jody: Oh, 360-957-6833. They can text us there as well. Um, yeah.
Dawn: Email hello@blackswanboudoir.com. We got the stuff. Yes, we are very-
Jody: We've got the [crosstalk 00:37:58].
Dawn: ... we're very excessive. For sure.
Rebecca: We are. We're definitely on the [00:38:00] Google and the Facebook. [laughs] we're for sure on the Twitter.
Dawn: [laughs].
Rebecca: Dawn's dying a little inside. All right. One last question. Have I made you blush yet?
Dawn: Yes. I feel like I did. I'm pretty sure.
Rebecca: [laughs]. All right. Well then I have done my job well, so-
Dawn: [laughs], I'm glad the lights are dim in here. [laughs] .
Rebecca: It does help. Right. Feels a little more intimate and quiet and connected. Awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's a lovely to have you both here.
Dawn: Thanks for having us.
Jody: Thank you. It was wonderful.
Epilogue
Rebecca: Yeah.
Shawn: Well, as a little epilogue to this episode, uh, you made me blush a little bit.
Rebecca: Did I?
Shawn: [laughs].
Rebecca: which part made you blush on [laughs]?
Shawn: [laughs]. Well, [inaudible 00:38:50] let me just talk. Here's the thing-
Rebecca: [laughs].
Shawn: ... as a guy, as a, as a guy that for the foreseeable future, for the far foreseeable future, and tend to dress up in a lace teddy and get photographs [00:39:00] taken of me. What I loved about this is I can see the, I can see how doing something similar to this would actually be pretty interesting.
So I was actually thinking as you guys are talking about taking those photographs, I was thinking about, well, wouldn't it be interesting if, um, a guy like me went in there and just said, "Hey, I'd like an hour photo shoot. And while we're doing this, I'm not gonna get into my shorts, but I'm gonna be thinking about my work. And I'm gonna be thinking about my band and thinking about the podcast and think about past relationships and what do I want in the next one?" And I just want to be thinking these thoughts and have you shooting me and be able to look at the vulnerability in my eyes and in my face and, and kind of see where my true soul and self is photographed inside of all that.
Rebecca: Yeah, I think that would be great. And I believe they call those portrait if you're not taking all your clothes off. So yes.
Shawn: It's that easy.
Rebecca: Yes it is.
Shawn: And perhaps I'd be a Mona Lisa at some point.
Rebecca: Maybe a Mona Sean.
Shawn: [00:40:00] Yeah, for sure.
Rebecca: [laughs].
Shawn: So now we're in a space where you have actually gone and done this with Jody.
Rebecca: Yeah. This episode was recorded in the summer and after that... b- a month or two, after that, I did go and I did a photo shoot, a boudoir photo shoot, and it was really fun. First of all, it was different from any shoot that I've done before. I've done at least one boudoir shoot a year for the last 10 years, maybe two. And so I'm pretty familiar and experienced with this, but this was unlike any other shoot I had done before.
And some of the reasons why I, I actually traveled to Astoria, to Oregon to go and see Jody and, uh, work with her directly in her other studio. And in the process of traveling down there, we forgot to schedule a hair and makeup person. And I only had with me what I was bringing in my suitcase. So I didn't have any makeup. I had a brush, [00:41:00] maybe a little bit of hair moose or something like that.
But the photos that we ended up taking are completely unedited. There's no filters on it at all, and it's not quite like I just walk out of bed, but it's pretty much how you would find me on a normal day around lunchtime. Um, maybe with a little bit better clothes, but that in, in itself was neat because I normally do get to have some makeup or as some people call it war paint, you know, prep for the day and being able to put a particular face forward.
And so in this photo shoot, I was more myself than I have been in almost any other shoot before. And I also got to see things when she handed me the photos that I didn't know were true about myself. So one of the ways that I think about myself [00:42:00] changed dramatically after the photo shoot, because I had been considering myself, a cortisone and a podcaster and a dancer in that order.
And after seeing the sh- the photos I saw how clearly I had been able to make my body, my friend, 'cause I have had a handful of injuries in the last couple of years. Things that kept me from walking that kept me from dancing, kept me from doing what I normally would be doing. And that was a huge emotional heartbreak, but also it was really physically impacting. And the photo shoot happened about three months after the lock down opened up. So tango dances had been happening for about three months.
I've been able to practice with my friends and with my old partners for a couple of months. And I could see in my body, the muscles were a different shape. The, w- you know, my coordination was different. The way my hips set is different and I'm a body nerd I've been studying [00:43:00] bodies and Pilates and all kinds of other physical things for many years.
So being able to see through the lens of the camera, what had changed in me and in my body helped me reassess, who I think I am. And I ended up changing my self-image to athlete, cortisone, podcaster. And that was a pretty big shift. Part of it just came from realizing how important it is for me to have a good relationship with my body the way an athlete does to eat food that feels right for my body to work out and move on a regular basis in a way that feels good for my body. But to be putting my physical care and not just physical care, like a high level of physical care. That's why I think I started with athlete.
So a high level of physical care and [00:44:00] then all of the rest of the work stuff just kind of works out.
Shawn: That's really good to know. I can see how that would, how that could change one's self image regardless of what their body looked like. Just to be able to see it. We all have, we all do have an Instagram filter of what we see ourselves look like in the mirror or when we're getting outta the shower. Typically, it's not as flattering as Instagram filters are. [laughs] in my experience anyway, so I can see how that'd be really valuable. What else?
Rebecca: Well, the other thing is I've had a couple of these prints from this photo shoot on my wall, in my office for a few months now. And I also changed my podcast, cover art to one of the photos, partially because it feels so much more friendly and intimate and welcoming than the headshot that I had had there before. And it ju- it feels so much more like me, but having these beautiful prints on my [00:45:00] wall in my office is a, an amazing reminder every day of, "Oh yeah, look how far you've come. Oh yeah. Look where you're going."
And there's a fair amount of symbolism in each of the prints as well, you know, there's me, uh, my whole body turning sideways and looking towards the light. So there's a lot of shadow on one side of my body and a lot of light on my face and on the other side and such a beautiful way of symbolically capturing me stepping out of the darkness and back into the light. And yeah, I really appreciate having them.
Shawn: Well, what a great episode it has enlightened me in that I know now that boudoir is very sexy. However, it is also very revealing in so many other glorious ways. And so thank you for this episode.
Rebecca: Thank you very much, Sean. I appreciate you helping me and see it.
Shawn: [laughs]. Rebecca, you are truly radiant and we'll see you next time.
Rebecca: See you later.[00:46:00]
Episode Credits
Rebecca: thanks for listening to Pleasure Central Radio hosted by me, Rebecca Beltran. Sean hopped in to co-host the intro and the epilogue today. And my guests were Jody and Dawn at black Swan boudoir. Technical production was by me with plenty of branding advice from our consultants, Sandy waters.
I also get significant creative feedback from my beta listeners group or this episode. Special thanks goes to Chet, Shawn, and Bob. Thank you for your input.
And anyone else I might've missed, you are loved. If you were looking for an uplifting gift for someone in your life, male or female, a photo shoot with someone to help them capture their own beauty can be a life-changing gift.
Jody and Dawn have gift certificates available on their website [00:47:00] and they would love to help you capture and celebrate these mountaintop moments With you.
If you've listened to this episode today and were intrigued by something, I would love to hear about it. What really hit home for you or surprised you. Or maybe something from this episode helped you shift a perspective about something important in your life. There's a voice message button on the homepage of Pleasure. Central Radio dot com.
I would love to hear what made a difference and it's as easy as leaving me a message on my answering machine. I'm especially interested in any new concepts that motivated you to do anything different in your loan life. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks for being a part of the conversation.
Photo credit for the main artwork for Pleasure. Central Radio goes to Jody Ray photography.com.
Thanks girl!. I love this picture
hey, you pleasure [00:48:00] seeker. Well, that's it for today's conversation. Here at Pleasure Central Radio, we love using conscious communication, science, geekery and copious amounts of true pleasure to improve our partnerships, our money and our love lives. We hope you do too. If you loved what you heard here, we love a review. You can listen to other episodes of the podcast and sign up to hear about new episodes immediately. Your thought to ponder today is...
Thought of the Day
Dawn: I've always looked at people as like a walking into a library and pulling out a book and everybody has the story inside. And so to slowly turn each page one at a time and find out who people are, is really fun and amazing. And especially to find out who they are before the photo session. So they know what to expect. We know what to expect. We know where they're coming from and what they're looking for and make it completely personal and unique to them. That's a real special gift that we are happy to share with people.