Rebecca Beltran: 00:12
Hey, you, thanks for tuning in. Just a quick heads up. This episode is rated PG 13. So expect to hear some mild language or adult concepts thank you so much for being on the show. I'm really excited to have you here. Thank you for having me. And I think I'm going to introduce you fairly simply, as Federico, a massage therapist that I got to see a couple of times in Argentina while I was there, and a lot of our tango tour team also about to come and have massages with you. And they all had their own experience. And we had some very interesting conversation in some of my massages, and I thought it would be fun to bring that up and reprise some of that or my podcast audience. And I also wanted to let you know at the end, if you want to talk about where people can find you, I a lot of my listeners are not in Argentina, but some of them are. And you can always send people to this episode, so that they can learn more about you.

01:27
Okay, I have a just an Instagram, so yeah, I'm fine. Well, I didn't know. I mean, I did. We don't talk about how is how, or what is the opinion of the other channels who take massage with me? They do feel like when I speak with with Zara other members is really caught my attention how people from USA, America and North America, actually, they find something really different in massage. Wait, a lot of time letting people like, I don't know, maybe we'll have something with the with the body contact or something with the well, you know, we are the people who stand closer to each other in the world. But I don't know how the rest of the people actually feel it. I don't know how they transmit it. I mean, with me they there was really what was really nice about my work. So I found that like, a good connection. Coven is not something I can do alone. You know, if you don't allow me to get in? I can't. It's not like a magical. Like, oh, my goodness, I think it's the most similar to dance and massage. It makes any sense.

Rebecca Beltran: 02:59
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I'm pausing to let you finish and also to make sure I mute and unmute myself. So I don't cause any problems with the squeaking of my chair. Yeah, I think you're right, I think we do have a very different amount of personal space in the US. And so having someone that has a much smaller personal space area, just being so connected and so comfortable around people, does make you think about things and make you think about your your body and your care in a different way. So that's my experience.

03:34
I guess. It's weird because we are, we used to be really close to others. And we usually are not that fear to human contact. But at the moment of the treat, how we speak to others. We don't put so many energy to be polite. I usually find like Australian Canadian, American people are so nice to speak with me. Sometimes I get the sensation that why is my hug. Like they are so nice with me. And then it's like they leave and it's like, what, why? Why? Like Dutch. We are just the opposite. We are kind of aggressive in the way we speak. But we are really nice in the way we were Dutch maybe we are like DC huggers.

Rebecca Beltran: 04:29
Now that where's my hug? We got so close. We're like friends now. Why are you leaving without bugging me?

04:36
Like you say, I like you why you like me, et cetera? Why you hug me? Please. So yeah, that's I think it's the most different characteristic we have about the contract.

Rebecca Beltran: 04:51
That's really cool. So I've gotten some feedback from some of the other people that were on the tour and had a massage with you. And one in particular Other Andrew has told me I can share some of what his experience was. And he will probably come on and chair somewhere, too. He had a very short trip and Argentina was only three days, it was supposed to be a lot longer. But in the three days having the massage with you, which had some Chiropractic in it, and a lot of other really interesting modalities that you build into your massage, which I very much appreciated. And he got to feel all of that all at once, and feel all of Argentina all at once. And he walked away saying that his brain, and his eyes aligned in a way that he had not been able to get them to do in a long time. And I'm gonna let him talk about his version of that story. But I just wanted to tell you, he still talks about that massage, three weeks, four, four weeks later, I don't remember a long time.

05:55
Really, it's amazing the way we can reach others. So deeply. Yeah. We are so like restrictor in our culture to, like only affect others in in the situation of making a family, right? Like, that's the structure. If you want to affect someone life, you have to be a partner. There is no other options, right? Like, and suddenly feel part of other in a constructive way from others lives through just something so antique. So ancient, like massage is so ancient. I mean, I started reading on techniques, but we, we start with massage in the birth of humanity. I mean, even cats do it. It builds some trust. So intimacy, I guess, like, from zero to a lot in some short time.

Rebecca Beltran: 06:59
Yeah, there's a lot of intimacy. And it is interesting that you bring up, we're used to being able to do this and provide this for our partners. But not for just anybody, we have to be very close. And they have to give us a lot of permission for that kind of connection, that kind of change that kind of intimacy.

07:19
Yeah, and imagining if you've changed their gender, it was extremely more. Alright, man money for men do it with another man, like, have this intimacy touch? is like, what are you doing? And if you're doing with a woman, like, hey, what do you think their husband going to think about this? Like, how other human rather than your husband will give you any silly flesh? Or nice feeling? There is? No Your husband is like, wow, that's a big thing. And what's the point to live in a society surrounding of all these people, if we can get pleasure to another's? I mean, we can have different types of pleasure. But I don't know. I remember when chat. I'm sorry, if I go to a really long branch, you can stop. I remember talk in, in this movie of Tarantino, when he says they're both both boys talking about there is nothing sensual in a foot massage. So he say like, okay, so you will do a foot massage to a guy. And he kept like, freeze like frozen, right? So it's something so and it's for me, it's like, yeah, why not? Everything can be erotic and everything then not to be like, you can learn. Like, I don't think erotism or is bounded to just a simple action is more complex construction. The we are told, like we can have like a reaction to some actions. That's, for example, like, Okay, if you touch this, this can transform in sexual and well if you say that to me, when I am a kid on your beat that all my life maybe I will be like that because you are programming. You're making a program on me. But if we allow us to put every feeling in the true situation in real true, I think we can find another way is to touch each other or help each other's not everything sexual is not everything is intimacy, but it's not intimate, but it's not sexual or erotica. Not the only way to feel pleasure.

Rebecca Beltran: 09:53
In the United States. Oftentimes when people say intimacy, they're talking about sexual intimacy. So I'm going to say What you just said there really clearly, it wasn't sexual intimacy, it wasn't genital touch. It wasn't any of that it was just connected, connected and caring.

10:10
Thank you. Thank you, for you. And I here for what makes you vulnerable. What makes you, you what you want to share from your insight? I think that's intimacy. Like, I'm here for that. Just that. I don't know. Like, we don't already keep inside us sex intentions, we keep inside a lot of things who make us feel vulnerable to others. So sure, that I think is intuitive. Yeah, I agree.

Rebecca Beltran: 10:40
And I, you probably remember this, our first two massages together, were very tranquil. And then my third massage, with Federico, I got completely crushed, I was crying when I walked in the door, I'd been crying for like two hours. So talk about vulnerability. And it was really helpful to have already this connection, this ability to know that you are going to be able to hold this space for me. And otherwise, I probably would have canceled, like, if I had had a massage like that in the United States, and I was feeling that way, I would have canceled, there's no way

11:20
you came just like crying, like really, like relaxed with that. It was like, Well, cool, because everything's fine with this, like, it's just an emotion and you're handling it very well. That's what you do with sadness and language, you just cry, and process. And we learn actually, processing emotions, we learn. It's not something just we throw away, or we just maybe not trash, when we process an emotion, we can learn about that. I think that's the most rich process. And, and that's, that's about for me. So, it makes me some noise is like why as individual we have to represent, like a boundary or a limit to the other to process their emotions. Why do we have this? So, so insulated in. So like grabbing grab or recorded in our minds that an individual or the individual is just like a chalk, to our feelings like way, keep this for your home? Then never happens? We never do that alone, because we need the companionship or we need we need some witness or something who take care of us or present some protections to, to us to be able to go inside and work with our emotions or where we are pain, for example. I understand why we shall represent an enemy for that process.

Rebecca Beltran: 13:03
Yeah, why we should push people away when they're having emotions instead of letting them be with somebody while they're having their emotions. I think I think the reason why it triggers People so often is if you have your own unresolved emotions, and somebody else getting emotional around you is like, well, now I have to let myself feel it or stop it from feeling because there's so much emotion in the room.

13:34
I think that's the, that's control trigger a reaction to that. But we have a really practice and really establish arguments. Who is how I can capitalize this moment, right? Like, what works for me why this worked for me. So we are so used to justify everything for money, for example, or for I'm working. So how can I capitalize? I'm hearing you cry or hearing you sob? Why this is useful to me. So why am I supposed to do it? Right? Like it's like we are not taught or teach the brightness or the useful in the community or in our hearts to be able to share this moment with our people, like be part of the emotional process of the other doesn't mean we're going to be friends forever. But it's a way to experience the humanity experience the other part other human in a way, who is not at demand, constant demand because the other always represents or demand of money of time of attention, or something to ignore, right? Like if it's familiar or something I care about is something who can jump and something from me. And if it's not equal the adventure if it's not, okay, ignore. But I mean, there is something nice in just sharing deep, too.

Rebecca Beltran: 15:12
Yeah, I agree it's nice to have that witness. I think I've talked about that a few times on my podcast, because that's usually what I'm looking for when I'm looking for a partner. I'm independent and strong, and I've got a lot of things that I need on my own. But what I really do need is a witness as a companion as someone to be around someone to be there. And to know what I'm doing and care.

15:35
We are asking for shared experience. I don't ask him for something, someone to make the experience able to me. I mean, I need something to allow me to have an experience. shared experience. I mean, I have the power. I can do it on my own. But I want to share it. And I want to hear another opinion. I don't need it. I want it. I think that's the big difference. But when you say it that way is it sounds selfish, right? Like, we have to need emotions. Like an emergency, like always says that emergency if there is an emotional, like, is that a sign? It just must be any other? If you don't is like oh, about? I mean, oh, how intense. And I think we have to learn about that. I don't know if we have a time. But I think we have just started learning about that. Hold sharing, emotions are sharing. While we already join it. I mean, there is a lot of rules. Maybe it's not the mainstream, but there is a lot of spaces to you can show.

Rebecca Beltran: 16:49
Yeah, and I think there are some public spaces that are starting to evolve a little bit past the default. Emotional way of being, there's a TV show on Apple TV called Ted lasso. And it's an American show, but it's about an American football coach that goes to the UK to coach soccer. And it's a fun little cultural differences episode at the beginning, but then it really evolves into this cool, like, what if the locker room was a very supportive place instead of a place where people can pit competed with each other? What would that look like? And to me, that's what that show has evolved into like what could healthy masculine and healthy feminine working together look like?

17:39
You know, here feminism is working on is a balancing large number overwhelming spin, right? Sometimes that speeds make it choleric, but the man the impact on man's strike man is specifically they feel so like, like they lost the place because they was fighting to become one kind of individual in the society and suddenly that individual is everything broke, right? They feel completely wrong. Like no one wants what they have to give. So some men spaces start to create and first my reaction was like, Oh, really you think you need you think men require more when space blank warrior then when I when I see is they start to create like a space some places to be more emotional. And when I see these charts, sorry, I mean I am really arrogant about this. But for me was so basic what like they allow them to feel that it was so basic, the proposal was so basic, I mean, maybe express myself correctly, like I go to one of that charts and they start with something like okay just try to connect with the feeling and share with the person more more than they have was like solving unraveling like crying online. He was like he was just like really like only this was you new to the flow. And then I remember that I have a lot of moments in my life where I go to search for that space of continents and on that and I guess that's the reason I more like the practice of our that and it doesn't surprise me that much that shot but yes it happens to me. The first time like we asked her like man's are not used to share with others without the violence between them showing like you can get close to a man without some kind of time. If you go like, like nine Friendship dodge even dodge dodge is like, how you there, right? Like you're gay or what? Like everything has to be like in pregnant with some sexual intention or violent intention. Right? Like, like men can't get close to each other without that charge. And I think it's so someone fair. And I understand how that this is, I don't know is so deeply inside us like, because for me even now it's sometimes I feel that that mechanism act inside me like even now I have a 40 right and working with it like printers like always with us and even now that time me like that's when I see myself getting close to her man like, Hey, bro where did this come from? No. But that's, you know,

Rebecca Beltran: 21:02
that's really interesting. I hadn't thought about it quite from that perspective that it's either erotic touch or aggressive and got some level of violence touched to it

21:14
is like one to enter in you in some way. Like I'm crossing a boundary. There is no other reason to get close to a man or there is no other way to interpretate the way Well, I think that's, that's the main discussion. If a woman's I suppose to be what heals, what is soft, tender, and nice. That means that men should be what the opposite always like we have the opinion that harms the thing is chuffed, the thing is rough. This is like something, it's just an antagonism, or a contrast. That's awkward, like, naturally, if it's some characteristic or only from for one gender, then automatically I must be the other part. And the other part is a sheet in case of man's right like because I don't want to be all that all the time constantly, like forced to be violent of strong. proving my strong all the time, like woman's like that they have to prove they're beautiful all the time. Right. Like, always make up always nice always lady like, I'm not that all the time. I don't have to. I mean, even in nature, it doesn't happen,

Rebecca Beltran: 22:34
right? Yeah, there's so much of a blend everywhere. We can't find extremes without finding the extremes that created those extremes in the first place. That makes sense.

22:45
Except me also paradise hills of paradise are really weird in that, I don't know if it's really random data. They're really random. But, but the males are extremely colorful, and weird. Like they look like Allianz birds, and the females are like, gray or brown. A brown simple belt. Is that yellow floor Korea to like really full of feathers? And we will shapes dancing. Gonna simple labor. That is the only way. I mean, the example I can think. So. Twister, like us, right, right, like humans. Yeah.

Rebecca Beltran: 23:34
And it's interesting to think about the reasons why Right? Like the reasons why the female birds have so much less color and they camouflage so much better is because they're supposed to be sitting on this nest with a bunch of eggs in it for a long time. And they don't want anyone to see them. They're vulnerable. They don't want anyone to know that they're there. So yeah,

23:52
yeah. But can be them can be

Rebecca Beltran: 23:59
nature of the color for males, and so the women will want to dance with them. Right. Okay.

24:10
Thanks for your DNA, you can die now. Bye, bye.

Rebecca Beltran: 24:14
Yeah, it must be very interesting, having so much of that masculine feminine in your culture. I mean, you grew up with it. So we may not see it the way I see it. But in the US, there's been so much move in the last few decades to make women be as strong as men paid as well as men do all the things that men can do that in some ways, a lot of women have turned into men and not women anymore. So there's a lot more of trying to meet in the middle and be everything instead of allowing our differences to be things that we can use to polarize and work with each other.

24:53
I think the the most damaging of that, or the idea of you You have to be in some way, like we, we give you one ideal, and you have to try to be that ideal. And then maybe we can bring you to ideals, like, you can be this or you can be that. I mean, in that moment when you are like fighting to reach one of the points, you never fight to find yourself, like, and let's face it, find ourselves is not easy. Because it's not true that in in past time, it was it was better. Like we are savage creatures with a lot of horrible feelings and instinct. And with time with learning with education, we reach to be nicer, nicer people, I guess, and to grow up emotionally and know ourselves better. And all that requires a lot of insight. And if you're fighting all the time to reach a place will make you I don't know, the way they were when you deserve something. I mean, if you're fighting all the time to be worth this title of woman, or man, or when you find yourself when you I mean, you can leave 1000 life and leave one for your own, right? Like if you're always feeling this call for something better coexist before you. So like, there is always a place for you to exist before you and you have to adapt to that place and never move it too much. Like it cannot be cannot be true. I don't think it can work for everyone. Like every idea like I don't know monogamy, feminism matches, everything. Nothing called fit for everyone is impossible. Because we are we're creators.

Rebecca Beltran: 27:03
And isn't that great? I appreciate all that variety. Quite a lot.

27:08
Yeah, me too. But I mean, I'm really happy actually, I'm living in Argentina in the capital, when in the main city when all these cabins like of course, I can appreciate the simplicity with a low on the basics in the fields and everything or not. I don't appreciate this idea, this entitlement people have of say, like, you have to live like this way. Or you're wrong. Like, well, if I asked you either don't appreciate that part. I appreciate that part of okay, yes, well, trying to use Shankill to culture, everything. But I really like to this culture of okay, be whatever you want. And if I can be happy with you, I will just move away, I don't need to kill you, I don't need to censorship, your I don't need to suppress you.

Rebecca Beltran: 28:09
I love the way you said that you can live 1000 lives and never live yours. And that reminds me of something else that you said in one of the massages that we had together about pleasure, about pleasure being the sensation of the body opening or something like that,

28:27
like the language or the cold, we the body opens. Like, if you try to see the barriers are simple, you can to understand how it works. I mean, the bar is extremely complex, it's really hard to understand completely how it works. But in a really humble way to get close to create a solution for a patient. It's okay to know some truth about the body is pain will make people clothes and, and baggy clothes at least pleasure will create probably an opening and we have to learn how to use pleasure in a terrible way. In a society where when someone gives you pleasure is hidden on you. So it's kind of hard sometimes for my work to to enter in, in the structure of the symptom to alleviate the pain or alleviate the things on without have this fear that the other person feels I'm flare turn or I'm you know surpassing some boundaries I shall not. So it's really common in my work that my colleagues goes to the pain, right like no I really like to make it hard on massage like with my elbow inside the ribs are and all that. And I realized that I have the same feeling like, my first way to learn massage was searching, a constructive way to use pain, right? Like something inside me, sent me to that search. A lot of people in that classes feel comfortable with the idea of, okay, we are creating a lot of pain. But the further I go, and when I start entering in the, because I fail a lot. So, you see the technique, I become an expert in failing, then I started to try another stuff. And in that class, when we start to use in the pressure to create that situation, it was extremely uncomfortable for everyone like, Huh, you are making me feel so good. And I feel my body open, like, oh, like something so make you like, I don't want this because it makes me feel I need you right now. Like, I don't want to, you make me feel so good. Because I will, I will become I don't know kind of dependent, on had person, right. And even for me, sometimes I suppress my instinct to give a good massage good habits anymore. But to people who are I don't find, I don't know, attractive. When I feel like Navy, like I was afraid that maybe if I sold for this person, this person going to be like, to the Pentagon, to me and nothing doesn't happen never happens. It's like something really healthy. We can share about these techniques of pleasure of opening. People usually get, you know, grateful sociated they have you they charge you and they go away. And they can forgive you. I mean, forgive you easily. It's not like Korea's dependence, actually, it creates creates more freedom when when you teach people that they have a tool to alleviate their pain through their pleasure. 31. Right, we are always looking for pleasure. And that made us to eat in McDonald's, drugs, wine, alcohol, drugs, and drugs, and sex all the time looking for pleasure to alleviate or avoid pain or suffering. But literally, that's this mechanism in Nashville realize, extremely studied, like we ran to pleasure to avoid pain. I mean, that process, we hurt ourselves. Because we are so desperate, desperate to escape from the pain that we have higher pleasure, we go to lower pressure and we become so easily easy to trick to receive. Because we can connect with ourselves. When we start connecting with a healthy pleasure. We become stronger and more free.

Rebecca Beltran: 33:18
And that's really interesting that you brought that up and set it that way. Because I haven't been running this podcast for six years now I think. And it's been called pleasure central radio the whole time. Every time I introduce it to somebody in my go, this is what I do. And I talk about pleasure, then there is almost in unfailingly a conversation about what is too much pleasure and what is not enough and then they'll be like, Well, you can't just follow pleasure your entire life. Like Well, it depends on the quality of the pleasure that you are allowing, because like you just said we can be tricked into taking smaller and smaller pleasures. But when we know what healthy pleasure feels like and what it feels like to actually be fueled by what we're doing and not be depleted, then that makes a huge difference. Pleasure that adds energy to my life versus pleasure that takes energy from my life. I treat those very, very differently and I think everybody should

34:17
yes actually um, I mean, if you if we feel it or see it like a structure, right, like for example, muscles is a lot of sarcoma is like, like a row of fibers touching themselves in contract, creating like a structure right? Creating a tissue. What pleasure do is basically to allow one by one or at least when we try to do in these techniques to create pleasure to out make an opening to a place or to a point who is generating these limits in the movement who creates the stress who creates The pain etc, what we do is try to like expand the area of perception, right? Like, what, when the muscle or the area feel pain, what it does is contract, right? Like total coinsurance in the shop, right? What we try to do is invite all that feeling that capacity sensitive to go outside, right, is that most what we do in the massage is like that is like call something called cold cold. Yeah, we are trying to call something like afraid inside the person to outside, like everything is okay come come to say come to enjoy. And when there is something about the I don't know if you hear it about the Olympic capitalism? No, I don't think I've heard of that. Okay, I want to enter in something so politics, but also economic, but is stadia of the study of the pleasure and the desire is now focusing in? Okay, what makes you buy something, right? So the idea of your desire, and your satisfaction is closer, that is to make it the most close? Possible. So you see something in desire, you buy it, or you take it or you eat it or you experience in some way you help, and you feel satisfaction. And again, and again. And again. So what's the problem with this, you will have learned meaning that the idea of sale experience calling for you to be experiences is the idea of I mean, pleasure is kind of the kind of the knowledge to find something who is good for us. That's the reason we are easily three, because we can well actually all the religions, dogmatic religion says watch our pleasure, because that can deviate you from the current part. Right. And the second part is, I will say you were well find the part is the part I say, right, that's the part is not correct. But the first part is okay, like, take care, because if only look for pleasure, you go have another nice life with not nothing goes nothing the Creator, but the choice. We can use pleasure in a way to construct ourselves and grow. I mean, we if we are not in danger, if we are protected, that most of us are, we can build true pleasure, we can build a healthy body. Actually, the easier way to avoid smoking or avoid eating junk food is to join the feeling of satisfaction with the feeling, past eating or post enjoying like those See, like separated ways separate things like, Okay, I really wants a hamburger. But I have to add to that thought to that this time, the consequence? Like okay, you're going to have this consequence. Do you enjoy that consequence too, because they came together. So the idea while action meditation is the same, we can be more wise to chose a path with more tones of pleasure. Right? Like the person can have tones. I think there's a difference between the sex who is extremely shiny, tall, like people believe sometimes that sex is Polish and it's all like a blow show or penetration and sex is so much more than that, right? I mean, so much. So much. And intimacy can be constructed without any, almost no contact, right? And it's still sexual because I think sexual for tantra sexual is the intention of share with the other, let the other in, enter inside you and change you. Slightly the dance of encounter right like enjoy that part. The part of something different within history enters inside you and change you like a new color and your new depression. What you need is an opening and that opening and the emotional can be in the skin. It doesn't have to be especially in a hole

Rebecca Beltran: 39:46
Yeah, I like that. The opening can be anywhere it doesn't have to be in a hole.

39:54
Because filling that philosophy we will try to do it through the year is doesn't work right, like poetry. I mean, you remember that idea of the markets of salad, the same market that mark

Rebecca Beltran: 40:11
the marquee that that

40:12
one? Yeah. Like the way he Right? Like, create a reaction inside the people was charged to release the darkest desire in the child tone. I mean the child serial tar I remember area, I mean the people in the area sound like, like releasing the deepest desire, and they're the business I always go to something kind of, you know, kind of bad. If we can jam the idea of go to something so pervert, I think it's something like that, like juries like a spark for inspire, to fail yourself to find yourself, just start knowing yourself. And then you can find C healthier ways to free pleasure. But first of all, you have to allow yourself to be your own guy in some point. Because if you always waiting for the world to say you what do you do? And what do you not? Well, you will probably don't find it. Like, I mean, there is people selling you mean, people leaves from sell. Pleasure. So if you don't, I don't know if you have anything sense what I'm saying? Because it's very hard for me to say in English. So maybe you have to beat

Rebecca Beltran: 41:35
I think I'm getting the gist of it. Yeah.

41:38
Yeah. So saying it.

Rebecca Beltran: 41:42
Yeah, I think it is a useful conversation to have to talk about to about where we get tricked into pleasure. And when we forget about the entire cost of what we're doing, like you're saying, if I'm going to eat that hamburger, am I going to be happy with the stomach ache after or, you know, whatever the cost is for for you for that action? If you're not choosing that consciously, then in some ways, you're just blundering into limbic capitalism, is that what you call it?

42:12
Yeah, actually, another person call it that way is really a smart person, I try to see their work, but it's something like that, like something is about to make it faster, right? Like, faster, like the call of the marketing must be more primitive more for your brain, the deepest parts of your brain, where you have less barriers, like you feel the similar and you act immediately. So I think what we have to wonder or ask ourselves is why we will we become so addicted to pleasure, right? Also what's the world like so scared of disgusting sensations? Like for example, the anxiety of speak about something who is uncomfortable, right? Because in some in some point, when we speak about pleasure, we are speaking in a really nice way of pleasure but when we make a look in the society or in I don't want to speak about the safety but experience we have all the time. I don't know Gostin why Gottstein exist well because people don't want to experiment the most small annoying thing in the in the bounding situation that is given negative I don't want to say you something negative I don't want to ask that moment and once experience moment so what they do I disappear so why we run in these mindless way to pleasure that's the question I do myself a lot or try to investigate this way we we come so compulsive sometimes and we can see we are in the cycle of pleasure pain, who becomes smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller until we are just running in a circle and never expanding experience. Making it shorter Right. Like I see that in a lot of people in my in my US surroundings that the only thing will stop them for it more or fuck more is pain, disease. Damage, some kind of damage, like economic damage, emotional damage. Like how is possible we are so ignorant than the only way we find is to keep mean keep advancing or keep going forward is through damage. There must be a wiser way to do it. Right? Like, it's weird because we don't see pleasure as a guide. We see pleasure as a problem. But as a painkiller, two

Rebecca Beltran: 45:18
double edged sword, isn't it?

45:20
But it's like we consider yourself like someone in, in palliative care. Like, we are always sick, always dying or suffering. So well, you know, I know it's wrong, but I will smoke this cigarette. Okay, so what this is what pain this situation is alleviating that you chose this. Because if you choose this, probably that we know smoking is bro is wrong, right? Or it's bad for your health. But but if you choose this, what is worst that you are running away? Right? I don't know if we're teach to make our self that question, why I'm running away that I choose shuffle. I'm really that bad like,

Rebecca Beltran: 46:09
and there's almost a piece of having to understand what something is costing you. Like, you know that junk food is bad for you, but you eat it anyway. But until it's bad enough that you're like, Oh, this is actually having an impact on my life, then it's kind of easy to say Oh, but it's just a little piece of sugar, or it's just a cigarette here and there or something like that. But the more it builds up, and the bigger impact it starts to make the bigger cost it's causing you, the more focus we have to put into it. And the more we have to ask that question in order to help ourselves move through something,

46:47
I guess you still should go away to say it. But it seems like it becomes more work like this. Like, if I fail I if I see it through the entropy point of view. It sounds like other we get it going to be harder to resist this displeasure. threat, right? Like, are you aware has a really nice way to say it. They propose something that is kind of challenging for our ideas, because it's like go inside all the time to express ourselves outside in a better way. Right? Like Iowa believes, like, we have like filters. I'm explaining I explain this right, really wrong, please don't change by your own investigation. But like, we have like filters, we we took the energy from outside, okay, like everything feed us companionship, peoples around us sounds, smells, views. Full. Pleasure is a way to experience our pain, right? Or the way we can know if something is well for us or not. But for a year, where the the word taste, I mean, the world like flavor is almost the same to express. And flavor is the same to express emotion and desire. This means that we go to search or we yeah, we try to experience some emotion to taste. So for example, when you go, you have a really ugly day in the work or you buy that day in the work. Or you feel yourself like rejected or mistreated. You will probably go to eat something you eat in your birthday, where your life is celebrated. Right? So it's not weird that we search for something sweet. When we feel like it's tough with us. That's the reason because that's probably a reason because all the processes fool has sugar in it. Even sure who doesn't have a sweet taste, but it has sugar in it. The funny part is are you aware I mean the wise or the people who was truly on creators were in the moment. They didn't know how the brain was made. But they will recognize that we're going to search for sweet taste. When we need comfort or hurt and feel like more like when we when we want love. Right like we want love and we want to feel wanted and desire to do that we search for sure. And when over sweetness. So I guess we are all the time or Ronnie to some sources of pleasure, sources of pleasure to avoid pain, like an opposite. And we are never trying to heal that wound inside us. That's the reason we create mechanism of compulsion. So we started like that don't stop choosing, that's the thing, we lose our freedom because we stop choosing our way we just act in a mechanism of okay, but they give me some fries. My boss yelled me in. So beer, my partner, betray me, give me a whiskey. Or my father didn't give me Venusaur. So give me heroine

50:54
I think I shall read in that. In that subject. They have a really simple and effective way to speak about I mean, to create the idea of treat that wound inside us who create this desperate idea of okay, I need this certify. I need it now. Why? I don't know. Just let me get it like something so childish. Actually, I think it's childish, I don't think is like an animal. It's more. I don't feel like Subash or primitive. I think it's more like childish.

Rebecca Beltran: 51:29
Yeah, that makes sense. And I understand what you're saying now about seeing the cost and knowing what you're doing is the long way around, it is easier to just give yourself what you need for that hurt. But you have to figure out what that is and pay attention to it first.

51:47
Yes, because in I think in the moment, we are training or ways to, to resist the temptation, there is a lot of mine training, or learning how to surpass or barriers. So it's a fight, you will never win, because these people are studying exactly that, like you go out in the street and you start walking. And all the time you will find something, not something who will promise you, you will feel better. If you've checked that, right? Like everything promised you to be happier. To be better to alleviate your pain. But if you go through the process of understand, yeah, that's the key I want to try to explain correctly. Everyone you have in your, in your soul in your system, closer part of you, who can feel pleasure. So the options of pleasure become smaller. So you want to kneel in chants, in tensor, more intense experience to generate the same pleasure, right? So it's like, if you have a phone with six ingredients, you're going to be inclined to have some taste. If you only have one ingredient. For rich, the same taste, you will will try with I don't know with salt. So you're going to use a lot of salt. Like, you know, like people who eat junk food, that after 10 years, they want the burger with sixth floor of cheddar and like, like a cascade of cheese. And you say, I mean, it's the same ingredient, but more times how this can be? Well, one of the reason is because you don't have the capacity to feel and other types of pleasure. I know which types of chased another. And I think that's happened with us we waster with some guns. War is like that is part of the experience. We get traumatized. So we escape from that experience from the good and the bad. So when I start to appearing like more, like really lame, so we search for in tensor experience, so I dance. I don't know once I go to a discotheque I start dancing and someone reject me. So I feel silly. So I stopped dancing, right? I don't have that capacity to express myself because I don't remember why Eldo said, right. 10 years later, some friends sent me Hey, come to this party, take this pill. You took it, you start dancing. You move repeatedly in the same way is I don't know if it's dancing. It's just you started like doing that. And that becomes like, Okay, I feel that this church, this is okay. So I want you to do it again. So now what's happened if I took two pills, and then I think a better question, what happens if you go to That moment in your life when you feel really embarrassed when you get rejected. And you believe that the reason was because you was dancing bad or whatever. And you start to feeling the pleasure of dance, like an African child can do it without appear without etc. So in that moment, when you make owner of your own pleasure, removing and healing, what's the what don't allow you to do it, I just played I'm sorry. In that moment, you'll become owner of your pleasure. So you are not so susceptible, or so weak to resist, to take a pill or to become drunk or whatever. I mean, there is a lot of people who say, I'm a really good dancer when I'm drunk, or that work.

Rebecca Beltran: 55:54
And generally, you just think you're a really good dancer when

55:57
you're talking. I think it's kind of a social construct. We may like, Okay, let him enjoy themselves. Right. Like, actually, that's funny, because when you say like, I going to go vegetarian, everyone says, like, Are you sure? What about Beechworth? Ah, I mean, um, when you say I go into grab a beer. Okay. Great.

Rebecca Beltran: 56:20
Such a different social acceptability for those things, especially in Argentina, where everybody eats all the meat.

56:28
Yeah, when a while when I say like, I wanted to leave it shut down was like, what? Like, okay, you're right. Maybe it's very fine. Start with cocaine. Well, you know, if you do it correctly, it's okay.

Rebecca Beltran: 56:45
Oh, my gosh, yeah. Funny, the things that are good for us are often discouraged. And the things that are bad for us are on every corner.

56:54
We do that so funny. Like, actually, when you say I want to eat only meat, everyone becomes food experts on nutritionist charities. So all at the same time, like, everyone is an expert in that moment. When when you want a line of coke, like is everything becoming notions like when you now you are your own person?

Rebecca Beltran: 57:17
Yeah. Very tricky way of looking at it, isn't it? Speaking of that,

57:22
I stopped I quit smoking. Good for

Rebecca Beltran: 57:25
you. Congratulations. I'll celebrate that.

57:28
I didn't know why I'm keep doing it. Because it was like, I was logging. I don't know, one. Two, are they cutting the half? Because it was like too much? One moment, I asked myself why I'm still doing this like, and actually, it's something difficult to quit because it's like, connected to some feeling of freedom. I feel when I was, I don't know. 15 Maybe. So when I realized that that feeling doesn't go into combat just for smoking a cigarette. Like that was a really complex experience. Me with friends of my own age alone, saying, Hey, we are so tough. Let's smoke. That was a great idea in that moment. During that 39 is like, you're kind of stupid. Like you are a free aquatera You're revealing about?

Rebecca Beltran: 58:24
Yeah, that's that's a fair point.

58:27
Yeah, what is the structure you are fighting against yourself? I mean, to be to breathe correctly. That's the oppressing you're fighting. But I guess, part of learning is that this pleasure is part I think you can have higher ways of pleasure. Cool, we'll teach you this is the correct way that you need the kind of detox before that. Because if you don't you if you don't learn how to recognize and separate between what alleviates pain and what's nourish us. You will easily trick you will easily lose your your part.

Rebecca Beltran: 59:18
Yeah, because they're definitely not the same thing.

59:21
It's not the same thing, but they the first day seems pretty likely. Well, when we are teenagers sex and love are the same. We get in love of everyone who gave us some torching like and when we get 25 for example, I don't know that depends a culture but then love and sex start to separate and no one's appear to be opposite thing. Right? For a lot of people who is they're married, they have kids, they say I really love my wife. Oh, When was the last time you fuck I don't know. 10 years maybe like but I really loved her is like why they become separated? Right. I think I think that's one that's part of. I don't know why, why that's happened. We need us in scholarships for that, I guess. Possibly. Yeah. The idea is they start really similar and we have to learn how to mature and grow in that area without get confused and keep learning. Well, I mean, keep chosing. Well, maybe I lost myself asked me something.

Rebecca Beltran: 1:00:39
No, I don't think you got it. I think you got it. I think now's a good time to wrap up the interview. So how about I asked you what is your Instagram and how can people find you?

1:00:47
My name is Federico Langone there you can find

Rebecca Beltran: 1:00:51
fantastic. Hey there pleasure seeker. Well, that's it for today's conversation. Here at pleasure central radio. We love using Conscious Communication, science geekery and copious amounts of true pleasure to improve our partnerships, our money and our love lives. And we hope you do too. If you loved what you heard here, we'd love a review. You can do this easily on podcast players like Spotify and Apple podcasts. It only takes a couple of seconds. And it's an easy way to help more people discover the show without you having to actually bring it up with them. To hear other episodes of the podcast and get notified immediately when a new episode is released. Follow me on your favorite podcast player. Find out more and get in touch at pleasure Central radio.com Your thought to ponder today is you can

1:01:41
leave 1000 life and leave one for your own