Elle: [00:00:00] The power lives here in inside me. If I'm being treated in a way that's not, does it meet me as I am? That's about you. When I let that happen to me, that's about me. That's my job. It's my job to take care of me, my job to say, when you're crossing my boundaries, it's my job to draw a line in the sand and to honor myself.

Rebecca: Hey you, thanks for tuning in just a quick heads up. This episode is rated R so expect that there will be some language that you may not want your kids to hear lots of adult topics and quite possibly some explicit conversations about sex. This episode is probably not safe for work though. You know, I guess it depends on where you work.

Shawn: Hello, Radiant, Rebecca.

Rebecca: Hello there, sexy.

Shawn: Okay.

Rebecca: You have an updated nickname, Shawn... [00:01:00]

Shawn: An updated nickname. Okay, perfect. I love it. I love it. So this episode today, I personally got a lot out of, because it's an episode of forgiveness.

Rebecca: It is forgiveness and breakups,

Shawn: forgiveness, and breakups. And guess what sexy being has just been through a breakup.

Rebecca: I think just about all of my friends right now, have been going through breakups.

Shawn: know a couple as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I don't know something in the air or something that might be the

Rebecca: real pain then.

Shawn: That's probably exactly what it is. Yeah. So this was a timely one for me. And so I'm really glad that you're letting me introduce this here.
And I'm excited to talk about. It was actually a really fun episode for me to listen to the episode itself, I thought was a breakup. And I think everybody's going to understand what I'm talking about when they listen to it in full.

Rebecca: You mean, you, you thought it was a breakup where you thought it has the [00:02:00] same general tones overall.

Shawn: That's what I mean, the emotion in the, in the, in the recording goes from anger and raw and revenge all the way to forgiveness and then even gratitude. And I that's, what I loved about it is I was like, oh man, this is like, it's like experiencing my breakup in 45 minutes.

Rebecca: That is a really quick timeline for breakup. I'm impressed.

Shawn: If only they, if only that's all it took.

Rebecca: Well, you know, after listening to this episode, maybe it will be that much closer to feeling.

Shawn: I think that is very, very true because there are questions that I know all of us experience that are answered inside of this episode were questions such as, uh, how do we get past the hurt.

Rebecca: That is a big one, especially when there actually was some kind of betrayal or a [00:03:00] really deep hurt, like some breakups are fairly easy to get overused, recognize that, Hey, we're not right for each other. See, you later have a nice life. Maybe we'll meet up for dinner sometime, but some are not, some are significantly more painful.

Shawn: Yes. And then along with the hurt is getting to forgiveness. And where does the forgiveness come from? And what does forgiveness mean? I struggled with that in the past, you know, just forgiveness and effect. You guys talk about this in the episode is forgiveness. Meaning you absolve them of all the responses.

Rebecca: Yeah, that doesn't sound like a great idea.

Shawn: and, and learning what true forgiveness actually means and where it comes from, which you, which you talk about in the episode. Um, I think helps us to get to that a clearer definition of that and therefore get to that spot faster.

Rebecca: I like that. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought it up because resolving someone of responsibility seems like a very childish thing to do.
It's [00:04:00] important to be able to move forward, but responsibility is sexy. Responsibility means something and taking away somebody's ability to be responsible, even when they've done stuff. That's not very good. I think it's not helpful.

Shawn: Yes. I think you talk in the episode about turning the other cheek. I know I grew up being taught as the Bible says to turn the other cheek.
If somebody does something wrong to you, forgive that. And then I think one of the apostles says to Christ, he says up to seven times and Christ like no up to 77 times. And so, so what, you know, that's where the confusion for me personally kind of lies is, you know, about what forgiveness means, where it's at, how do I do it?
Do I have to do it 77 times? Could I do it 6 76? What if I get to 78? That sort of thing. So, so this was, I appreciated that part of this as well. And then the important part for me [00:05:00] about forgiveness is how do I release myself from that relationship so that I don't repeat it. I don't bring it into the next one.
Yeah.

Rebecca: And not just release yourself from the relationship by saying, oh, we're done, but release yourself from the patterns. Right. That's what you're talking about. Don't recreate the same pattern in another relationship because. Nobody likes to step in Cal buys twice. Well,
Shawn: what's the exactly. Wow. That's a very Cedar wooly thing for you to
Elle: say.
Thanks.
Shawn: So, uh, and then I've heard that, you know, we both heard the saying before of I've dated the same person with a different face. Yes. You gotta let go of it. See a different face or see a different person. It's always going to be a different
Elle: face. Good point.
Shawn: So this episode is what the woman, a lovely, amazing woman
named
Rebecca: L yes, an L and I have known each other for a little while.
We talk a little bit about our backstory, but some of the things that you should know about El is she is a bad-ass. [00:06:00] She has been a CEO of big corporations for a very long time. And now she's a tantra teacher. And she loves to help people connect with their inner power and find their inner power and find it through Pleasure.
So I thought who better to have on my show. Oh. And she also took booty socks of vows recently, which is pretty cool.
Elle: How
Shawn: fun is that? Okay. Well, I'm excited to listen to the episode again, y'all out there in a, in podcast land should be super excited to hear this one. This is a really great one and I'll, uh, I'll, I'll see you after the show
Rebecca: and I hope we answer your questions,
Shawn: Sean.
I hope so. To 45 minutes.
Rebecca: Well, hello there L and it is so good to see you, huh?
Elle: Hi, Rebecca. Great to see you too. I am delighted to be here, Rebecca. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca: It's this is really neat. I get to [00:07:00] introduce you and share a little bit about how we know each other, everybody. This is L mountain dear full name L price.
We've known each other for almost a year. We met in a shamonic workshop in a class. So we've been taking this ongoing course together all year long and well, we live on opposite sides of the country. We've gotten to be in person a couple of times for some ceremonies, but, uh, mainly we've just, you know, connected really intensely over some personal experiences that we'd both had recently.
And I was wondering, do you, do you want to share some of the details of that?
Elle: Well, well, we're going to talk about is, um, forgiveness, and, and sometimes I'll talk about revenge too, but I think my story is not as important as the recovery from the story. So [00:08:00] typical boy meets girl, girl falls in love. Um, boy hurt, girl girl gets to be victim and has to find her way back.
The details I'll share a little bit more about, but they're not important because they're, they're actually from the past, but this journey is still with me to a place. Um, what does open-hearted forgiveness look like when I started at, I hate you, right? So.
Rebecca: I love that. And I think that's one of the reasons why we had such a good connection to begin with, you know, there's this concept of bonding over misery and neither one of us are the types of people to do that. But even though we had these somewhat miserable experiences and we were able to share and connect with each other over it, wasn't sharing about, oh my God, [00:09:00] what an asshole was?
This person, you're a person, my person, everything. It was more of, okay, this is something that really matters to me. And how am I going to, to move forward with this? And that was what we connected over. And I thought that was really unique and beautiful. And that's also one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show and talk about some of the things that we've both learned.
And you were generous enough to come and share your experience and to talk about this really vulnerable, difficult heart experience that you'd had. So welcome.
Elle: Thank you so much, you know, I'm remembering that five-hour car ride. We took to sacred land and I was talking about, this goes back eight months ago, where I was and what was going on.
And I was already into healing at that point. The original, the original rawness of the wound was [00:10:00] starting to heal. And you said, oh, I would love it. If you came on the show and shared that. And I said, I would love that too, but not yet. I'm not fully healed yet. And, and it's been. Eight months since that conversation.
And I've been actively involved in, what does it take to get me back to the before, before I was wounded and back in balance again, and I feel really ready to share what the journey was like and that this miraculous thing that not only did I get back to where I was before, like before I was wounded, but I actually am in a new place beyond where I was before.
And I want to share that too, [00:11:00] because it's been a strange year and a half, um, sort of having this journey appealing, um, leads me to new places that I've never been before. Yeah, bad things turn into good thing.
Rebecca: Yes. And I'm glad that you mentioned that and brought that up that way, because when you said I wanted to get back to who I was before and be healed, I was going to call you on that.
I don't really think that is healing or healthy, even to think of how do I get back to being who I was before that implies that you're broken and there's, uh, something that you need to do to fix. But, but the reality which you pulled out here is that you have grown through these experiences and now you're a happier, healthier person because of them not in spite of them.
Elle: That is so [00:12:00] exactly on point, not only is. It was gross. It was, there may have been some healing in there. And certainly I got a chance to look at some issues from my own family of origin, meaning I called this person in and realized at some point in the healing that he was a lot like my dad. So I got, and I adored my dad.
So I got to look at as an adult, some of the things, some of the wounding from my father that I brought into my life recently. So that was a healing. And I I'm quite certain because that's healed when I bring in my next love. It won't be a person I need to work that out with. Cause it's now worked out blessing.
Rebecca: That's really good. Is there anything [00:13:00] specific that you're willing to share? Something that other people who can maybe connect.
Elle: Yeah, I think w I think I will, but I would like if it's okay to talk a little bit about what I mean by forgiveness and a little bit about revenge too, so that I know we're all on the same page with what I mean by forgiveness.
Right? So all we Lijun speak about forgiveness, you know, like the Lord's prayer, which is fundamental in the Christian religion has 50 words in it, and two of them are forgivable. You know, our father who art in heaven, hallowed be the name that came to come. They will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day, our daily bread and forgive us, our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us, not into temptation, but deliver, deliver us from [00:14:00] evil. Amen. So what we see is that the teachings of forgiveness are key to the teachings of Jesus. We see that also in Buddhism and we see that Judaism.
Slightly different flavors around it, which I might point to later, certainly, but everybody talks about forgiveness. So what exactly does that, what does that mean by the way? I, I also want to say this, this has been such a Warrior's journey for both of us. It requires being brave to let go and let go. Of those hurts.
Is that your experience too? That you really need to be brave? Oh
Rebecca: my goodness. Yes. And there's a certain amount of courage that's necessary, not just to face the pain, but also to face the pain and to [00:15:00] come out of it with a gift
Elle: or more. Oh, right, right on sister. That is, it's a worrier journey. So I'm going to talk about that a little bit or religions talk about this, but it's really not clear to me how you do this thing called turn the other cheek.
Forget. I was unclear. And so when I found it was a journey of my own heart, it was about my bravery. It took my courage. I got confused. I thought I was letting him off the hook, but the nasty things he did and it's, I got fused in there and it took me a while to tease that apart into realize that I was doing it for my own.
Well. [00:16:00] It had nothing to do with him. And then it had, I was not in any way absolving what he did. Like there was a different, I needed to get back to my own balance, loving heart and stop painting. You know,
Rebecca: I think there's a distinction here that's really important to make and that the distinction is anger versus
Elle: outreach rage.
Right? Right. So in our teachings, right, in our Chemonics path, they talk about anger being part of pity, feeling sorry for yourself, I'm so angry. And then you tell a story, blah, blah, blah, blah happened. And you get yourself in. Pity victim [00:17:00] story. Whereas wage is different. It is, it is, it is a teacher on our path and range has no story.
It's just like higher and it comes through and it burns out everything. And what's left is truth.
Truth is so clear and so beautiful. And I got to see a lot of truth. And Rebecca, honestly, I saw some things about myself where instead of being a victim, I participate, this does not again, change what happened. And, and, but I was not totally without my own participation in this, as I saw from truth. That I [00:18:00] did things that caused him to be unhappy.
So it was a reflection from me about things I've done or do that I don't actually want to do anymore. So I got reflections about him, the situation and my stuff. I got a lot of truth.
Rebecca: Yeah. I think we're going to have to hear a specific in a minute, but I wanted to say for me, uh, the difference between anger and rage, I liked that you said anger has a story behind it, but it was groundbreaking for me to realize that rage is a natural, normal, emotional response to injustice.
And once I figured that out, I realized I had kept myself in this place of. To stop looking at the injustice, but when I dropped the story and I just let myself have that rage and let that rage burn away everything [00:19:00] to see what was underneath the truth that was underneath was someone who was being disrespected, majorly.
And that was something that I hadn't been able to see because I was stuck with my story about it.
Elle: Brilliant. I just want to add one of the things that as a girl brought up an hours to society, rage was scary to me. It was too intense and not, and something I think I have learned as a girl growing up that you don't do anything that intense.
And it's not lady life or it doesn't go with the pink dress that I was in as a little one.
So, you know, the thing about forgiveness is I thought forgiveness was [00:20:00] so, whereas rage feels too fiery. Forgiveness felt saw, like we're letting somebody off the hook and that's not what forgiveness is, forgiveness these wisely. It is not thoughts. It is not weak. It is not foolish. It does not absolve. And we can say never again.
Right. And devoting our lives even to that injustice, if it is. But forgiveness is always, always about us and not about. And that was a big distinction for me. I thought if I stayed angry, I wouldn't let them off the hook. If I forgave them, it was off the hook. And I had to reorganize that thought for him and say, when I forgive, it's not about him.
He's not off the hook. I'm just spraying myself. [00:21:00]
Rebecca: It's interesting. I was shared a poem a couple of years ago as I was going through a pretty bad breakup. And one line in the poem says forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past.
Elle: Yes, yes. That was one of the turning points for me in skilling.
Because when I was in pity, I kept thinking, well, if only this, if only that, if this, and when I stopped trying to. Create a new narrative, a new scenario and went, no, this is it. It doesn't the past. Doesn't change the past. That was freeing that, that created a field for me to start healing it. Exactly.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Okay. So let's say that someone listening [00:22:00] has got their own problem, that they are wishing that they could forgive. Where would you recommend that they start
Elle: well and I'm not, I'm not sure. I want to, um, want to say something about revenge too. Cause I really like revenge and then I'll, you know, so
I'm going to talk about forgiveness. I'm in New York girl. I liked revenge. There's something about that. That feels satisfying on some level, like I'm dreaming of all the ways I can get you back. It's like, I'm looking honey off the edge of the knife. It's seductive. It's sweet, but it's dangerous. And I did [00:23:00] in all honesty, do that for awhile, but felt that I wasn't here.
I wasn't enjoying life. I was in the past remembering all the bad things and in the future fantasizing about all the ways they get you back. And I wasn't in this precious moment and it also became a duty. So I would fantasize today, how I would get you and tomorrow and the days and the weeks were going on and there was no resolution.
I was stuck inside that. And I realized that was not my path, that the homeless, although it was satisfying for a little bit,
Rebecca: it does seem like that's a pretty common pattern. How did you recognize for yourself that you were stuck in this loop and nothing was [00:24:00] actually changing? Cause I know that's been something for me where it is somewhat satisfying to have these thoughts
Elle: and
Rebecca: until you can see it as, oh, this actually isn't good for me, it's pretty challenging to get the energy and motivation to change that.
Elle: True. So you fit in it for as long as you do. And I think some people, I certainly met people in my life who are still fighting somethings from years ago. You know, I remember going to an engagement party and meeting the mother of the room B and I was going to take a picture of their family. I never met the groom's side of the family.
And, and I tried to take a picture of the groom, the father and the mother of the groom to be. And she wouldn't the woman who was the mother, the groom wouldn't get in the picture [00:25:00] because the father, uh, she was divorced from the father. So I said, oh, it sounded so raw. And I said, I'm so sorry, when did this happen?
And she said, 13 years. So the rawness and her fight was still going strong and consuming her, even on this happy occasion of her son's engagement party. So you can sit in it for awhile, but I also noticed that it didn't feel good in my body. Um, it felt like survival. Um, it felt like I was out of balance, like my system wasn't right.
And I wasn't my joyous happy shell. [00:26:00] So it was, it felt like part of the pity and the victimization that I have all of the aspects of being a bit. He did it to me. I'm a victim. First I'm crying then on stands and I'm getting you back. I'm attacking you back at my fantasies, but it all felt like aspect. At some point it grew wearisome, but I really wasn't doing, I was just going through different stages of pity and being a victim.
And that's not usually who I am. And that's what we bonded on is that we're not victim. We don't want to be victims. We want to get what we need to get from this and move on, move up and grow. So [00:27:00] I think that was it. I thought there was no freedom. That was part of it. This whole aspect of forgiveness is attached to me.
My own sovereignty, my own beauty, my own balance. And when I was in pity and suffering, I wasn't free. It was running me. So I wanted my freedom back. I was missing it and I didn't want to suffer anymore, quite frankly, you know, but forgive, this is counterintuitive for me anyway, it was counterintuitive. So I had to find my way there.
So without, at all, how it was for you?
Rebecca: Yeah, I think for me, I did feel, and I still do a fair amount of time. I didn't feel out of balance and like there was something wrong and [00:28:00] like I'm not being my normal self. And I also found that it was really challenging to figure out. I like to separate that from everything else going on from the year of COVID and from the lockdown and the isolation and all of these other things that were all changing at once, like an incredible amount of stressors happening all at once.
And then in the middle of it, there is this big open heart wound that I was trying to figure out what to do with. And it was also something that I hadn't experienced like that before. Like I have, I've had major heartbreaks before, but I have never had that experience of knowing so clearly like, okay, this is someone who I believe I can trust and then having that backfire so awfully in my face.
And so, yeah, I think it was a similar thing, you know, just trying to figure out how to tease apart all of the [00:29:00] bits of trauma and see where I needed to stop.
Elle: Yeah, good point. Good point. I too fell very in love and there was this beautiful promise of a bright future. You know, he was, it was just magical. I mean, look, they're really real hardships in the world.
There's genocide, there's children getting hurt. There's homicide, there's rape there's violations on a level that you and I are not talking about. So it medically in the total scheme of life, the trail we are, we didn't deal with that. It's a different journey back to wholeness, but nonetheless, it required a journey back to wholeness, no matter how awful.
Um, the [00:30:00] violation and the trauma is so I too, it's just a boy, girl thing again, there was a promise, a hope, a dream, and in COVID and it wasn't realized, and man treated girl badly and ultimately dumped girl. And that's the story, right? Like there's a lot of pieces that she said, that's what happened. It's happened a lot.
But through me, I really wanted this to work, you know, and I didn't,
and you wasn't nice.
So, you know, I think forgiveness for me, I can't speak for anyone else. I'm I'm not, I'm more spiritual than I am religious. [00:31:00] Um, and so forgiveness is counterintuitive and I had to find my way there. I still find it a challenge, but mostly I find it a choice. Like, do I choose it? Do I choose it? Do I choose it?
Do I bring myself back to the concept and the behaviors of forgiveness?
And so that's been, um, that's been this journey, which we want to talk about a little bit. Um, there's a quote that I love. There's a lot of quotes, but this is ancient. This quote goes back to. 300 years before Christ. So it's 300 years the FII and it's written in poly and it's, um, it's a Buddha quote and it's from the, the language of Holly, which [00:32:00] predates Sanskrit, which is an ancient language.
So it says hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone, it is the ancient and eternal law. And it's found in the dorm of Paya. So I sat with that for a long time. Meaning the solution to my problem of hatred is love. How do I do that when I actually hate it? How do I turn that hate into love and compassion?
Clueless. That's where I started. So the first thing I actually did, so I didn't know what to do. So the first thing I did was somebody said to me, [00:33:00] you can't hope for a different future, that, that same quote that you just quoted. And I went, oh, it isn't going to be any different ever. It is the way it is.
Okay. That was a starting place. Then I stopped telling the story of all the shitty things he did. And I realized if the few thing I was getting something from telling the story, I was getting attention. I was getting agreement that he was a jerk. I was also. Being a victim, meaning I was carving that story into the neural networks of my brain that I'm a victim and I didn't like being a victim.
So I stopped telling the story. That was the first thing I [00:34:00] did. And I found that I started to gain power. So I realized every time I told the story, I was reinforcing what a victim I was and losing my own power again in the moment. Does that make sense?
Rebecca: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think it's also a very relatable thing.
I'm sure everybody listening has had experiences like that. Where at some point you lose. The way that you're interacting with an experience or a person, and you realize, you know, at this point I think this is starting to be my fault.
Elle: Now, you know, I realize this is I could feel the chemicals in my body that were tactic, you know, whether it's cortisol or I don't know which chemicals, but I could feel that [00:35:00] when I told the story, I was releasing stress hormones, and it wasn't making me feel good.
And I felt that if I kept telling the story, I was losing out on my life force energy, I was missing out on my joy. I was missing out on my life. So there in lies. It's my fault. At this point, I'm doing it to me. So, and I realize this is not a big deal. We, we live, we've all been neglected. We've all been violated.
We've all been abandoned. We've all been betrayed. We live in a world of injustice. It was kind of like get a grip, you know, get a grip. So, and then I also [00:36:00] realize, you know, holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person. Did I, you know, I knew he wasn't upset. He was mad little John.
Um, so, so, um, then I started to do practices that I learned wet.
I read books that became my teachers and my friends. And because it was a boy girl thing, I read some books on the dark night of the soul. And I read books on women who love too much and some spiritual books. And they became part of the healers part of my teacher. And I wanted new teachings because I needed to expand into this and get beyond my anger.[00:37:00]
Rebecca: There's a, when you realize everything that you know has not helped you anymore, you have to go and find new knowledge to help you.
Elle: Ah, true thing, right, right on sister. So read books, stop telling the, the story. Uh, did goodness ceremony. Where I forgave myself for making unwise choices. I forgave myself for believing things.
When I actually had other data, I forgave myself for lots of things for all the ways I would bitchy. I gave those things the way to trees and I sat for hours giving things away and giving things away and asking the trees to make flowers out of the garbage I was giving away. [00:38:00] And then when I was finished for giving my self, believe it or not, I took him on and I forgave him for being a jerk.
I knew he was a jerk. So I forget, I think I gave myself in the first part, but knowing where he was a jerk and trusting him. Right. I know. Um, and then I forgave him for being a jerk because I knew he was a jerk before I got engaged with him. So I forgave him for being him and forgave, lots of things. And the world started to get more spacious and I gave away my anger and I gave away my resentment and I gave away and I gave away until I was emptying was an empty vessel.
Rebecca: Um, giving away your meaning, letting go of, right. You're not trying to take this stuff in your apartment and take it to Goodwill.
Elle: No, but I [00:39:00] did. I live across the street from a big park and I did fit with trees and give it away so that I could give it over to mother earth. I thought I'd put ceremony around it, Rebecca, so that it would have a certain power to it of letting it go and sitting there and saying to the trees I give up my anger, I give up my room, I give it up.
I give it over to you. Tree. You take, you make flowers out of all this mess. And I just,
Rebecca: I just popped in to, uh, clarify that cause the whole idea of giveaways for people that aren't dear tribe is like, what are you talking about? So I think you've described it pretty well. Now I just wanted to clarify that for everyone.
Elle: Oh, thank you. Um, it's useful for [00:40:00] me to make a ceremony out of things. Just the simple ceremony and assemble ceremony was fitting by. Um, and bringing in the power of nature into my little ceremony. And, uh, I was doing this a lot of this healing around Easter time. So it was spraying, it was the season of renewal and I wanted to bring ritual into it and ceremony into it.
It's just useful for me as I do healing practices, but I want to be powerful for myself. And then I journaled and in my journaling, I talked about where I wanted to go with this feeling. What I imagined was possible for me, um, out of. On the other side of this. And I imagined my heart being [00:41:00] opened. I imagined healing.
I imagined bringing in a new partner. I imagined being a wise woman out of this, like opening my heart, opening my wisdom. And I just journaled about what was possible as another one of my practices. Um, I did some Buddhist meditation, so that was kind of the journey, but then there was something else. So when it got spacious, something else occurred to me, which was new.
And that newness was, although these spiritual practices a never felt like I had really given it over to Sarah, it was me doing this work rather than giving it over to spirit. What occurred to me? Was maybe this was a [00:42:00] spiritual event. So this on the level of 3d that really happened, girls fell in love with boy, boy, didn't treat her.
Well, girl lived with boy, boy threw her out. That's the, what happened in three days in this plane, what was starting to occur to me was maybe, and I don't want anybody who's listening to things. This is true for them. It's just true for me, which is, I wondered at this point, this was like a year into my healing, whether I had actually invited this event into my life to teach me
so. Again, I don't want anybody out. Who's had anything bad happens to them. [00:43:00] Think that that's true for them. It's just true for me.
Rebecca: Um, well, I think it's pretty clear that you're not saying, Hey, if something bad has happened to you, it's because you made it happen. It is. I think often a very useful way of looking at the experiences that we have, because on some level we've made the choices that have put us in the places that have, where we've experienced, what we're experiencing, and we've made the choice to have the attitude that we had as we were going through it.
So there's a, a certain piece of the amount that we suffer and the pain that we endure from, something is something that we have chosen and something that we have created. It's something that, uh, if we have free will, and I believe that we do then that some of that was on me and that's okay. And I think what you're talking about.[00:44:00]
There might be a deeper need for you. Some part of you that I said, look, I know that this is gonna not feel very good, but in order to be the person that you were born to be, you've got to see a new perspective on something. And this is how we're going to do it as you haven't picked up on it yet. So I have to knock you over the head with something.
Elle: Yeah.
Rebecca: It's not always fun, but it's
Elle: clear. Oh, right on. So, so right on. And, um, what was interesting when I started at the thought that maybe this was something I had it, that it was in my book of life, that it was written rather than, oh, I'm a victim. I realize this is so weird. I keep notebooks. When I go to classes and things, I, I have no books with me.
I have three notebook. That I wrote [00:45:00] a poem in the inside cover. So it was like for the last five years and the poem is a roommate poem roommate. Um, many people will know is a 13th century Sufi poet who has found, um, real acceptance in our very now modern era, but he's ancient. And he wrote this poem and I, I kept writing it inside my journal, not my workbook, right.
Go to classes. And the poem reads run forward. The way will spring open to you be destroyed. You'll be flooded with life. Humble yourself. You'll grow greater than the world. Yourself will be revealed to you without you. So all of a sudden it occurred to me, maybe this aspect of [00:46:00] destruction was part of my spiritual path and I quote it in now, if that's true, I don't know.
It certainly the attitude and approach that I brought to it at a certain point in my healing called, oh, I was waiting for this. I knew this was coming. And I also started to have some humor about the whole thing. And I started calling it. And this is catching on with friends of mine, my Humpty Dumpty experience, you know, I couldn't be put back together again the way I, what I was.
Oh, yes, that's true. So, so true. Oh my gosh. I left there things I no longer. Right. Two things. And I wasn't going to give up a lot of that. It had to be, I had to be knocked upside the head. Yes. [00:47:00]
Rebecca: And well, I think we make it sound a little bit violent while we're talking about it. Like, you know, you have to really drive that lesson in, but I think even more than that, it's like you're going through an entire identity change.
And while we're changing who we think we are, we don't always know what we need to, like, I love in order to step into the next evolution of ourselves. And so having experiences that make it super clear, Hey, yeah, this is something that's not working anymore. This is a, an attitude that you probably want to have a little bit different before you try this again.
I think those are really important and really helpful. And having that clear, distinct something and. In my opinion, uh, probably one of the most efficient ways of changing and evolving,
Elle: very efficient, very fast, [00:48:00] sometimes hard. So I'm not sure that the world is spirit and the world of people here on earth is different, but it feels different sometimes.
You know, there's still the boy girl story, and then there's the spirit story and they're the same. But if they think of him, I still think some of the thoughts. And if I think about this as a learning tool, I love it. Like, I'm so great. So one I didn't like, and one on so grateful for, but they're the same blows my mind a little bit.
I see from that Rumi poem, there was a kind of destruction that took place. And I feel flooded with life. Like maybe I couldn't be this open-hearted the armored, this vulnerable, a human had I [00:49:00] not had that experience of being destroyed. So I'm not sure that the spiritual path, which I'm on there though is an easy path, but I certainly know I've chosen it.
And so this came in and I welcomed that because, because it's efficient path to growth. Yes. That active, I forgive you. Um, and it doesn't need to be any different from the way it was. Uh, release is the pain. If you can, when you get there, it releases the pain. And then in Novo, the heart and the, you know, the heart is the fourth chakra.
It's the about it's it's the middle Shakara. So our, our physical in this [00:50:00] plane chakra is Shaq for 1, 2, 3, 4, and then spirit is 4, 5, 6, and seven. And so four is in both. It's the mixer. And it's where we balance out who we are as spiritual being with who we are as human beings. And I think that the place where we have to, where I have to.
Honor that what happened to me in the physical is also what happens to me in the spiritual and that the balancing of my heart and the returning it to its a noble self is the journey. So it's about being in alignment with the divine and from that place, um, you can actually be a magnetic attracting [00:51:00] being and start to bring in all of the beauty that you want because when your heart cleaned, you're actually Resonance with the universe and can attract those things that you want when your heart is heavy with grief, sadness, pain, and the anger.
And you haven't released it. You, you're not vibrating on the level of the universe and it's challenging to attract the thing that you want to bring in. So the end of the story is I can do that. Now. There's gratitude, profound gratitude for this journey.
Rebecca: And in that case, if you were going to say something to this person now from this new place of gratitude, what would you say?
Elle: I don't know that I need say anything to [00:52:00] them. I have said that well ready, meaning and the person is asleep. They, they do. They do. So I think what there is for me to say, there's nothing I have to say to him. I don't have to yell at him and I don't have to appreciate him anymore. My appreciation is in my heart for the journey, not the person.
I would say as much as I think the person operates in shadow and is out of balance. I would say his soul with it. And I imagine somewhere that his soul and my soul agreed to this before we came into this planet. So to his, so I would say, thank you. [00:53:00] What would you say?
Rebecca: I think it would be similar, you know, thanks for being an asshole.
I appreciate it. It was very clarifying and now. I have a better understanding of the depths of my own love and my own self-respect
Elle: yeah. I have some of that too. Meaning what I take away is never again, will I let that happen? Never again. The Meg, I am clear on the measure of my work.
Rebecca: Tell me more about that. What does that
Elle: mean? The measure of my worth means what I'm worth. Meaning when someone disrespect me, that's actually their right to do that.
It's my job [00:54:00] to take care of myself. The power lives here in insight. And if I'm being treated in a way that's not, does it meet me as I am? And you break your agreements, do hurtful things, treat me in a way that's unkind, uncompassionate, do things that are betrayal. That's about you. When I let that happen to me, that's about me.
That's my job. It's my job to take care of me, my job, my job to say, when you're crossing my boundaries, it's my job to draw a line in the sand and to honor myself. But if I'd be trained myself and let someone do that, then it's really more about me than [00:55:00] them. That's what I learned.
And all the pretty words and all the promises what's there anymore. What's there is, what's the real truth. How are you acting? How will you behaving? So you keep your agreements, not the promises of big, less than that's word. And that's what I mean by that. Is it different for you? What's the takeaway you were talking about your worst?
Yeah. Okay.
Rebecca: So for me, I think my experience was different enough that it wasn't, that they were treating me poorly. It was. The way they were talking [00:56:00] about somebody else and the way they had interacted with this other person. And that basically there was a, a good relationship that had turned sour and they let it turn sour.
And I could not understand why the fuck anyone would ever let that happen. And now I know that better. Why someone would let that happen? What I think what really happened for me in this experience was a deeper connection with other women, because I've always been one to stand up for other women and for my other partners, partners.
And if you going to be talking shit about your partner, we're not going to date. We're probably not even gonna be able to have lunch to be honest, but I don't think I had realized how far I would take that. And it turns out. I take that standing up for other women pretty damn far, like looking at what I've actually done this year and the actions that I've taken.
Yeah. There were things that I never [00:57:00] thought I would give up that I said goodbye to because it didn't fit into my definition of integrity anymore. And without integrity, we don't have respect and without respect, that's not a relationship. And yeah, I think that was the new learning that I had was how far I'm willing to take that.
Elle: Beautiful.
Rebecca: And it's neat too, because I think when we have a new learning, whether or not. Our actions fit our new understanding or not is really the deciding factor of how will we learned and have we healed? And for me, I saw three different times this year where I made a choice that was very, very different than I would have made before this experience.
And now it was so clear to me. I am not going there. That is not happening. So, yeah.
Elle: Hmm. [00:58:00] Beautiful takeaway. That's really great. One of my big takeaways is I realized that this, I told you in the beginning that this somehow got me in touch with some family of origin things to very recently, I saw after IPL how much this man was like my father, who I put on a pedal.
And out of, so my father I'll give you an example from my father. So when I was an undergraduate school, I was offered a scholarship, but I was told, and I was poor. So I was taking out loans because my parents weren't paying. And, um, it made Dean's list when I got there and they went, Hey, you, we want to give you a scholarship.
And I went, oh yeah, [00:59:00] that's good. And they gave me papers that my father needed to fill out. And my father went, I'm not going to fill out these papers. You're not college material, but he had always said everyone, my daughter's in college, you know, all of this stuff of what I realized is that there was a model of love for me.
My father had this big adoration for. He thought I was wonderful and told everybody I was wonderful. Made me promises. Didn't keep the promises and then made them my fault. In other words, we're not going to fill out these papers, not because I'm an lazy asshole or, or some other reason, but because nobody would give you a scholarship.
So I saw that my model of [01:00:00] love is big. Love, throw you under the bus blame. You and I went, oh, not a good model. Don't want to do that one again. Yeah.
Rebecca: Well, good for you. I'm really glad that you learned that.
Elle: True. Yeah.
Rebecca: So to wrap this up, Both have had some different experiences of intending what we wanted this year.
And I was just curious, do you have anything you'd like to share about new relationships or new experiences that have blossomed in the wake of this healing?
Elle: I think the difference is I, that I do feel as if
I can [01:01:00] with this in no blink of the heart and this freedom, this freeing, um, and seeing my unhealthy model of love that comes from my family of origin and completing that. I'm noticing that I can actually manifest anything with ease by say, I want something. It shows up. So I'm manifesting with ease probably because I'm vibrating on a different level.
I am also completing things. I've stopped doing some work that I was doing watched other consulting work, come in, working with couples and a new, I mean, so I'm seeing shifts, but mostly I feel like on, in my [01:02:00] own circle of power, instead of looking to someone outside myself to validate me, I've taken my power back
and feeling that and using that in service to others. So, ah, I know what that.
So a few years ago, although I took refuge as a Buddhist and this year during the struggling or being challenged by forgiveness, I took vows to be a bodhisattva. A bodhisattva in the Buddhist tradition is someone who gets off the path of enlightenment to help other people and be in service to others and on their path.
So obviously everything that showed up [01:03:00] with not only that, it becomes not about you, but the work is about you and all the ways that you can continue to heal and serve. So I'm on the. My practice has grown in terms of working with couples, healing, others. And I continue to deepen my own healing because the more I can deal, the more I can be a service to others.
So that's what I see is the spiritual part of it. Yeah.
So I think the thing that I would like to do, if you're okay with that, I'm feeling and it's okay. If you don't want to do this, when I'm feeling the wished and in a little like 90 seconds meditation, [01:04:00] do you feel about that? You feel all right about that?
Rebecca: Are you going to leave it? Huh?
Elle: Yeah. Okay. So it's 11 compassion.
Prayer meditation, which feels appropriate given we're talking about the freedom of forgiveness. So let's sit comfortably with our spine straight and imagining the world and all the people in the world. Most of them, we don't know some of whom we know and love and to love us back. Some we know, and when neutral to neutral to us, some were not in alignment with include yourself in the world.
And if you feel comfortable [01:05:00] include those people who have wounded you, the trade you wronged you, but only if you feel ready, if not. Leave them out of the people in the world to now imagine the entire globe of everyone use included as a ball and you can hold the ball in your hand, everyone on this planet, good and bad wants to know happiness and being from suffering three, then sending warm wishes to all living beings on the globe, who like you want to be happy and things the thought may live with ease.
May you be happy? May you be free from pain, brings out your stances, [01:06:00] your anger, nuclease reason. Again, holding your globe. I think just as I wish to may you be safe? May you be healthy? May you live with ease and happiness in breathe out your sadness, your anger and your grief. And so we give away all the bear we have created in our conversation today, all sent in, being who can benefit from our blessing it, as we give away in the spirit of love and compassion.
And may we all continue to heal and feel compassion and love mostly for ourselves.[01:07:00]
Thank you.
Rebecca: Well, if you resonate with her and you would like to connect and hear more and have a bigger opening for yourself, then her information will be in the show notes. And L what's your website,
Elle: www dot essence, E S S E N C E dash. love.com.
Rebecca: essence-love.com. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being on the show on Pleasure Central Radio L.
It was a pleasure to have you.
Elle: Thank you, Rebecca. I was a joy to be with you to talk to your audience and to talk about the freedom of forgiveness. Thanks for inviting me on this. My pleasure.
Shawn: That was
Elle: awesome. Wasn't that? Cool. Well
Shawn: done that last piece with the prayer, that [01:08:00] 92nd meditation that is worth bookmarking right there and listening to on a daily basis.
And I know that some of the podcast episodes, they delete that, is that right?
Rebecca: The gas apps, once you listened to it or it'll go away, but on my website, Pleasure Central Radio dot com. It will always be there for
Shawn: you. That was a
Elle: tease.
Rebecca: No, no, no, this isn't.
Shawn: So yeah, definitely do that because of that, that's a great little way to kind of center and bring everything back.
I think that was a really nice way to end it. And another really cool thing is there is a follow-up episode, kind of a followup episode coming out very well.
Rebecca: Yeah. Now that we've talked about breakups and forgiveness and gotten your heart to ready to move forward. I hope we can talk a little bit more about how to move forward in a way that is working smarter, not harder.
Elle: Ooh. How would I do that?
Rebecca: Well, when you're [01:09:00] clear on what really matters to you, you and I know this and you're clear on what matters to you, then it is much easier for you to recognize it when you see it. Right. Right. And so I have an episode that I've been holding on to for a little while that I did with Wendy Newman, it's called the partner have to have, so where I talk with Wendy about a digital workshop that she put out this year and you essentially go through and you get.
A list. It's a workbook and a set of audio and videos that you listened to together. And she takes you through this workbook and process of getting really, really clear on what matters to you most in a relationship. What kinds of things do your future partner or partners absolutely have to have what would be nice and what doesn't really matter
Elle: to you at all?
Shawn: That sounds very exciting. Clarity is one of my things. I love clarity. So I'm excited to listen to the episode. [01:10:00] I love
Rebecca: clarity too. And I'm excited for you because I did this entire workshop in the summer and I have a very different life now with the partners that I have around me. And it's pretty
Elle: cool.
Shawn: Nice. Yeah. Well, Rebecca, you are truly radiant.
Rebecca: Thank you very much. I work hard on it.
Shawn: this and thank you for this episode, and I'll thank you for your participation in this as well. And I am looking forward to
the
Rebecca: next one. I am too. Can't wait, I'll see you there.