[00:00:00] Rebecca: Welcome everybody to Pleasure Central Radio. This is your host, Radiant Rebecca, and I have two amazing human beings here in the virtual studio. I have Sherry, who was on episode, I can't even remember which one, The Sex Talk and Blowjob Tips episode many, many years ago, and her new partner, Brian. Hi Brian and Sherry.

[00:00:21] Hello.

[00:00:23] Sherry: Hi, Good to see you.

[00:00:23] Rebecca: You too. So you guys are traveling around the country right now. I see you're in your camper van and checking in from where, Where are you right now?

[00:00:36] Sherry: We're in Oregon, La Grande, Oregon, near some hot springs that Brian actually found this place and, um, Yeah, so that's where we're at right now where our destination is Phoenix on October

[00:00:49] Rebecca: 1st.

[00:00:50] Lovely. And oh, I remember the last episode you and I talked about. Sure. You had just finished a kska workshop. That's where you and I met. We. We had both done a kska and now you're going back to do some training with the same group of people. This is a much longer ceremony, but I have done this one too, so I'm really excited for what's gonna happen for you, for both of you.

[00:01:13] Me too.

[00:01:13] Sherry: Thank you. I'm, I'm super excited. I, I actually was able to do a test run on the toy that I bought

[00:01:22] Rebecca: with you

[00:01:24] Sherry: recently. I used that this morning, and yeah, it was, it was quite, it was quite fun to play

[00:01:30] Rebecca: with that. Are you a happy camper, Sherry?

[00:01:33] Sherry: Yeah. Yeah. Really? What a nice way to start the day. . I couldn't help
[00:01:39] Rebecca: with that.
[00:01:39] Little fun.
[00:01:41] Sherry: I'm doing homework for my, for my school right now, .

[00:01:45] Rebecca: I love it. How is the homework working out for you, Brian? Interesting.

[00:01:53] Brian: Is that something different to wake up to feeling like if I was doing that, I'd be getting in trouble for this? Really? Yeah. It's not true, but
[00:02:01] Rebecca: that's what I felt like. Okay.
[00:02:02] All right. Good. Yeah, I, I'd be surprised if I know Sherry pretty well. I'd be surprised if that was true. But it is interesting, those old mental tapes that we have running in our head, right? It, I remember it took me years literally to learn how to be natural in my expression of my orgasm, because I grew up being so, so quiet, so nobody else in the house would hear me, and I know that that's pretty normal.

[00:02:28] It's not unusual. All right, So we wanted to talk a little bit about intimacy and honesty. Now you guys are the ones that picked that topic. Do you wanna give a little brief introduction to why those two things are the most important thing for you to share today? Well, yeah, I can definitely
[00:02:47] Sherry: start with that.
[00:02:49] I think that Brian and I are just now, we're six months into our relationship. Even though we've done like tons of stuff like that, most people probably wouldn't do together for like a year or so. Like I moved in with him and then we emptied out the. Moved into the RV and now we're, you know, we left New Jersey and we're in Oregon.
[00:03:09] So we've, we're on like the accelerated path. And as naturally that happens, like people when they get together, you go through like the honeymoon phase and everything, and then your stuff starts coming up and coming out and, and all of that. So in, in that, both of us are learning about how to deal with things when they come up, how to.
[00:03:33] I don't know, be in the moment and honest about something when it's coming up and it's, it's just there's so many fears around, like hurting each other's feelings or we both do so much work. We've both done so many, like, well actually, I guess Brian's experience is a little bit different. I'll let you talk.
[00:03:52] But all the retreats and all the spiritual study that I've done, it's like I'm constantly noticing my ego and noticing my thoughts and everything like that. It's now, it's like getting outta my head and getting it outta my mouth and talking to another human about it, and it's like a whole new level of expression and compassion and love, like unconditional love.
[00:04:17] I feel like that's basically what this is, is a journey for both of us into unconditional love in partnership without dragging all the baggage, or at least not beating each other with our baggage or whatever happens. So something like that. And we've had a couple of breakthroughs like really recently that I think we're gonna get into today, but it's, it's an amazing experience for me so far.
[00:04:42] Rebecca: I love it. What about you, Brian?
[00:04:45] Brian: So, for me, we started the relationship on this awesome premise that we were gonna be totally authentic, like. We made the deal, we weren't gonna wear our most attractive outfits. We were just gonna show up to our first date, like just being us. Like not go for the moon and be honest.
[00:05:04] And I told share, like our first in person meeting, I told her sort of all the Shay things that I've had hiding in my closet that I haven't want other women to know about. And always had it in the back of my head like, well, I told them these things that they wouldn't really care about me. So I just led with that and was like the first date.
[00:05:25] So it was really this thing of like being authentic and being really expressive and honest. And I think as our relationships gone on, especially when Sherry moved in and all of a sudden there was no more hiding space and she saw everything, you know, I started to get more and more fear built up and started to.
[00:05:45] Put on a facade or a shell maybe even. And like the stakes got real. And you know, when I'm doing my goofy stuff, like getting mad in traffic or just whatever was going on, I would sit and think like, Wow, she just saw that. I wonder, like, wonder how that went over? She's not saying anything about it. Um, so start, I just started to develop fear around that and started not talking about stuff.
[00:06:10] And some of it was definitely around sex. So, I felt like I was getting like squished down into a box. So the, the last week we've really got to like, unpack some of that stuff and really sort of expand out and get back to like the, the nature of our relationship is really being like super expansive together and really authentic and the whole of who we both are.
[00:06:36] Rebecca: That's a really beautiful statement. Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. I. Well, I'm listening to that and I'm sure there's somebody else hearing this conversation and wondering, how did you face that fear? I mean, obviously it was building up for a while. What did you guys do to make that possible for you to talk about it?
[00:06:59] Brian: So for me, I've been working on my relationship with myself a lot. And in prior situations, if I was like dealing with a breakup, I would. It would be like the Shay thing. And I would be mad at myself and myself talk, would be like, I hate you. Why do you always ruin my life? Why can't you get it right? And because my relationship to myself has changed, it was like, I might not be right for Sherry, but I'm right for me.
[00:07:25] And no matter how this ends, like I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna take care of myself. I still care about myself. And that was the space that made it like I'm leaning into this. So I pulled her over on the side of the road and was like, Hey, we got some stuff to talk about. So we sat in a rest stop until dark.
[00:07:42] We'd ended up not getting to our destination until like 2, 2 30 that night. Cuz it was just a priority to just, We're gonna talk about this and get these hard to deal with things out on the table. If we have to fight, we have to fight and get through it.
[00:07:58] Sherry: Um, so for me, how do I get these things out? My journey, or at least my focus the past couple of years has been like, just being able to feel and, and not always be so perfectly put together and controlling what the external world might see or perceive. And, and just like really just. Whatever's there, just let it flow out to the best of my ability, and I'm still working on that.
[00:08:27] But with Brian, um, whenever things would come up for me, like something triggers my abandonment fears or my, um, whatever stories I have about how relationships end and I need to defend myself and prepare so that I don't get this big blow of a surprise of someone, whatever it is. I, I've just begun to like, allow myself to just literally have a tantrum, like crying, screaming, Um, which I would never do.
[00:08:58] I would never really emote to the extent that it needed to come out. And it's certainly not about Brian for the most part. It's like whatever's buried in me that was in my tissues or in whatever. I'm finally just letting it out. And I've, I've just had these moments where, um, I would think to myself like, Oh my God, he just watched that happen to me.
[00:09:19] How is he gonna be attracted to me again? Or like, how, how do I even bounce back from that and be normal and like go to dinner after I just had that terrible tantrum? And I think that's what's, for me, that's what's gotten us to this point is just like, not keeping it like the, the words and the sentences.
[00:09:36] There's things that I haven't said, like from a logical standpoint, but everything that I've been feeling, I've just let it come out and just let it sit there. Like I don't even know what this is, but I'm hysterical. I wake up in the morning, I'm crying. I really don't exactly know why, but I'm just letting.
[00:09:53] Come out. And um, I think that on an energetic level that's been like a catalyst for something to happen. Cuz he's over here feeling like, how do I console this person? Maybe I guess what do I do? And I'm just like, . So neither one of us has a tool all the time, but it's like we're just letting the universe like flow this, whatever it is through us.
[00:10:19] And um, and both of us pray a lot. I, um, will say to God, like, Please take this away from me. Please help me feel better. Please help me resolve this. Please tell me the lesson I'm supposed to learn. I'm suffering. I'm causing this somehow. Like, you know, and I think the more that you ask, the higher power to like, intervene and help along with being like natural with your letting things flow, like something's going to happen, , you just can't keep going.
[00:10:51] Brian: So, so my side of watching that has been that you started to get upset and you did a really good job of almost entirely not making it about me. So it made it easier to witness and care about you. Since I didn't have to defend myself, I could care about you and your feelings, and so I didn't have that feeling at all of like, Oh my God, who's this crazy person?
[00:11:14] It was much more a thing of like compassion. Understanding the things that were driving it, like knowing about your, your past and childhood and the things that could be triggering you and just really feeling compassion and love for you. So I didn't feel that at all. And then that became my tool of when I could, like I have a hard time being that vulnerable.
[00:11:38] I don't let myself fall apart in front of other people. And it's, I, I want to be able to be more free. So I have a story that like, if I did, then I wouldn't be acceptable. So I can turn it around and look at, Well, when she's doing that, I don't feel like she's a crazy person or get this away from me. I really, Sherry, so put together and sort of a accomplished and sort of always does it right.
[00:12:02] So when sh and, and that's intimidating. Her places, her, her soft spots, her broken places are actually like access points for me. So it's really feels so much closer and wanna like draw her to me and just hug her and listen and give her a kiss on the forehead and be there for all that stuff. So my, the way I work in my head is I turn that around.
[00:12:25] I'm like, well if that feels good to me, maybe that would feel good to her and she wouldn't be judging me either. And she would like the opportunity to be closer to me. It's not this Shay thing, it's actually something I can relax into. So I've tentatively started to trust that idea that like, it's okay to be vulnerable with her too, and she's not gonna leave me either.
[00:12:44] And, and it's turned into like, I can't believe the things that she's willing to be present for and listen to. It's like I don't even tell some of my guy friends, some of this stuff. Like, I can't believe you're my girlfriend and we're this close and intimate and I. trust you, and I'm telling you this thing that I think you're gonna scream and like slap me, and instead you're just nodding your head and helping me go through stuff.
[00:13:07] Like that's just, I don't know. I've just never even dreamed of being that close to another person.
[00:13:13] Rebecca: What a beautiful new way to look at relationships. Right? It's interesting when you guys said, Intimacy and honesty being the theme, it immediately made me think about I, I actually may have said this while you guys were here visiting me last week, but when you're unwilling to show who you really are, the price of that is that you also cannot be accepted.
[00:13:38] For who you really are. And it sounds like you guys have found the payoff of that. You figured out how to be yourself and how to be open and vulnerable and real, and then allow the other person to accept you as you are. And I can see the smiles on your faces and the glowing on your faces to tell me that that is doing something powerful.
[00:13:59] Definitely. Yeah.
[00:14:01] Brian: Yeah. That's the, so, so yesterday morning Sherry woke up and was upset and. And I just asked her what was going on and tried to make space for her to get it out. And I woke up feeling the best I felt, and I don't know how long. So I really had the space to just like, Wow, whatever she's gonna say, it's, I'm just gonna not make it about me.
[00:14:21] And she started laying out like two months of judgments about me and I'm like, Whoa, if this is really how you feel, like, I don't think this is the relationship for you. Like if that's really all true for you. Wow. Like, I don't think you should be in this relationship. And I'm thinking like, I should do her.
[00:14:38] The kindness of leaving, like, and when we stayed in it and she said, and I wanna stay in the relationship. At some point it opened his door into like, Oh my God, she's seen these things I'm trying to hide or wish I could hide or whatever, and still loves me and accepts me. And instantly I just, I literally felt like I went through a portal to a new world.
[00:14:59] It instantly. More open, spacious, and it felt like things that I'm really stuck with or have shame about or no clue what to deal with, all of a sudden they're on the table for like, Wow, I have this best friend that's like in a loving way, sees my wart. And that might be the the way to transform them. That might be like the access point to the wisdom of like, what do I do about this stuff?
[00:15:23] And that feels like. The most safe, close, amazing place. And it was like, I didn't say it out loud, but I felt like, wow, we just married our souls. Like we, something's transformed in this relationship. That's like, you can't go back, Like we're through a one way gate and we, we've, we've just now connected in a way that's.
[00:15:48] Can't be broken and the way forward is to like, so we did it again today. We talked more deeply and really around sex today, and it's just like the opportunity there to transform. I've just my, all of my sexual experiences, not all, but a lot of them, certainly formative, were around pornography, so I feel like orgasms are driven by visual stimulus and really seeing.
[00:16:15] That's kind of a, a fantasy, a crutch, and it brings shame to me and that there's this deeper way to better sex and orgasms and all that stuff. That's through this intimacy and sharing and really being honest about where we are. Like maybe we stop in the middle of sex and like, Hey, this is what's going on for me and my performance.
[00:16:35] Anxiety tells me you can't do that. Like men don't not have sex and say like, I have whatever goofy feelings going on. and I'm, I'm thinking like, Wow, that's what I'm gonna do. So that feels like the next frontier is to like really open things up that way. And
[00:16:55] Sherry: and I, as we were talking this morning, and, and Brian was sharing some things with me about his past and everything, I'm like so grateful for Cordo and orgasmic meditation and all the things that I have done where I've sat in circles. Men and women who have talked so openly about shame and I mean, I literally don't feel anything but like happiness that he can say whatever he says and, and that I have no, um, I.
[00:17:28] Like, I don't have a reaction to it. It's more of a curiosity than anything. I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. Or there are things that I feel like, because I've sat in so many circles, sacred circles with smudging and everything, and hearing testimony from men and women about sexual shame, it's like, I don't think there's anything that I'm gonna hear that's gonna make me go.
[00:17:48] What? Like, it's just, it's, it's common. And, um, and I, I guess I try to distill it down to, It doesn't matter what it is, but whatever it is, it's like, it's like that's that thing that we're holding onto and we're allowing that to be the blockage to more Pleasure, more intimacy, more vulnerability, and it's, it's just like a piece of energy.
[00:18:13] Like the data doesn't matter. It's all neutral. It's a thing that happened. It doesn't have to have meaning. We just have to, you know, I believe in forgiveness, like forgive myself. And maybe like mentally connect with the person and try to just not let it have a hold on me and not, not be like a barrier for me to move forward
[00:18:36] Rebecca: in my life.
[00:18:38] That's lovely and I love that you talk about that thing being a block when really the antidote to shame is sunlight. You bring something that you're shameful about into the light, then it's, it loses its shame. Hold very, very quickly. . Yeah. Yeah. So true. Lovely. Okay. Well you guys have brought up sex a couple of times and just kind of touched on the general topic.
[00:19:05] Is there anything, since this is Pleasure, Central, Radio, is there anything that you would like to talk about a little bit more in depth and have it be, you know, more of a consultation with me, if you will? You're welcome to ask questions or share anything that you'd like to have some thoughts.
[00:19:21] Brian: Yeah, so it's actually one of the things that was the genesis of living in this camper.
[00:19:26] So my peak sexual experience was Sherry and I took the camper to New Jersey and we, it was just like a three day trip and we had sex in the middle of it, and it, I've never had this experience before. I couldn't tell that we were kissing and I couldn't tell the difference between my tongue and penis.
[00:19:47] They were both like in this amazingly perfect state, and it was based on connection. Like it wasn't like a scene outta pornography, it was just this, like I felt so perfectly connected to her and we were, while we're kissing, so obviously face to face and it was total bliss and I felt so perfectly connected.
[00:20:10] I didn't even have an orgasm. I just was like, I'm just gonna let this go down all by itself. And. When it goes the other way and I don't feel as amazingly connected and I want to, you know, look at her body or you know, have a fantasy or whatever to get to, you know, a super high state of arousal. It's like a scary thing.
[00:20:32] Like, Oh no, I thought this was like the perfect relationship and why don't I know how to will that amazing connection sex on. Just because I thought of it. And, and then there's performance anxiety, which I think most men suffer from. I definitely have that fear of like, I'm not gonna do it right. And then I'm just a failure as a man.
[00:20:50] So, you know, the, the, the tools that are at hand in that moment are like, well, think of something that's made me horny in the past are like, do a different position, especially one that's less intimate. Cause when we're looking at each other, I feel like sometimes it's just too vulnerable and that is distracting.
[00:21:06] What's going on sexually, And I'm, I'm losing not interest, but like, I don't know, whatever, whatever's coming in is like anti, it's definitely anti erection. So , um, so I'm, I'm wrestling that, but our conversation today was like definitely opening to the door to at least starting to explore that and being really clear, like the answer.
[00:21:29] have like, you know, 10 women stacked up and, you know, or whatever the combination would be. It's not that, it's like being more honest and starting to like really do that emotional work, especially in the heat of the moment. So, but I'm, I'm curious to hear what you have to say about that. It feels like a muscle that I almost found by accident, and then now it's, well, how do I work that out more?
[00:21:52] How do I develop that so it's reliably available?
[00:21:56] Rebecca: Okay. Uh, that is a really great question and the first thing I wanna say is nobody knows how to will that connective sex into being. Demand. That's, that's just not a thing. And part of it is because when we're wanting to have that connection and make that nice and strong, it requires both people and it requires something new.
[00:22:18] So we can't go and do the thing that worked last time because it doesn't have the fuel for us anymore. So we have to be both present and ready and available. And then, Let something new, take us someplace new. So it's a fun thing to think about and trying to get it to the point where it's like a hundred percent of the time you can do it is gonna be majorly frustrating.
[00:22:38] So I recommend if you're wanting to aim at it, anytime that you wanna do that, aim at it. But remember, what you're aiming at is connection. Connection and something new between the two of you. That'll make it way more fun to explore this process and a lot less.
[00:22:55] Sherry: What are your thoughts about when we're having sex and you're not as like in that heart space and you wanna look at my body?
[00:23:03] Or you wanna sort of like focus on something different in order to get yourself over?
[00:23:10] Brian: Yeah, I get, I so like, especially to think friends are gonna listen to this, but I think other people need to, from a male's perspective, like pornography's, so pervasive and it's so damage. Your sexuality and I have shame and whatever else in there, and all that gets in the way.
[00:23:27] Like, you know, seeing Sherry naked, I feel like I'm gonna get in trouble if I look too much. And it's like, it's just weird, the shame stuff. And I, I really wanna heal that because that feels like a huge piece of happiness. And it's weird that it's like the shame says I can't look at her that way. And. What we're doing.
[00:23:52] And so that's not okay. I feel like I'm gonna get in trouble. And then those feelings that come up, the answer is to like, go look at porn and, you know, create new shame, which is like really a weird spiral of like always being stuck in that shame instead of working through it. And it's, I don't know, for me it's, there's something really, like in this porn era that we're in, that's like learning to be.
[00:24:19] In love and aroused with a real woman, which is like one person not, you know, the endless variety that porn is and the like, the crazy false reality that creates. And yeah, so I think the question, if anything was like, you know, any insights on how, how to heal that because it comes up in the middle of it.
[00:24:39] Like that shame shows up in the middle of sex a lot and shame's a really hard place to talk from
[00:24:44] Rebecca: and shame's a really hard place to have sex. Yeah, for sure. You thought anger, sex was weird. Shame. Sex is awful.
[00:24:57] Okay, so what I'm thinking about shame and sex and how it comes up, there's a couple of things. So one is you guys, um, There's a book called What You Really, Really Want, and it's fascinating. It's a good book about looking at and addressing what your real fantasies are and your desires are, and the things that have taught you about that and what.
[00:25:21] Society has taught you about yourself and about other people, so it's a good way of deconstructing, pulling apart all of these things that might be the key to shame that you haven't realized is not something that you wanna own anymore. So that might be a fun thing for you to do together. Because it sounds like these conversations where you're opening yourself and being a bit vulnerable are really useful kindling for your relationship and for your sexuality.
[00:25:47] So you might start with that. Uh, also, you guys have both been to a Kudo Go workshop, right? So you're familiar with the five types of orgasm for men and for women. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. Yes. Have you experienced and played with those very much with the different types of orga. . No,
[00:26:06] Sherry: I mean, I, I feel like almost like I have an aversion to, to doing exercises and everything like after workshops.
[00:26:15] So if, and, and I think that's part of my cycle of like being hard on myself and assuming my body can't achieve what other women's bodies can, and I have a little bit of that program running. So anyway, I don't, I don't think that I have experienced or tried to like, you know, get into that higher level orgasm space
[00:26:39] Brian: for me.
[00:26:40] I've had sometimes, so I don't remember them super well, but the first level is like, you know, it feels good and then there's the repulsion afterwards. Like, I have to get up right now and go have a snack, or I need a drink, or there's just some reason I have to get out of bed and get away from you. I sort of alternate between that and then the next level of like still feeling and staying connected and being willing to move into that.
[00:27:04] But beyond that, I haven't had a higher level experience. So we're, I think we have this work, both of us, around shame and connection and all that stuff to get to that point. So I feel like that's next for us and this is the work we're trying to do to access.
[00:27:22] Rebecca: Okay. I'm glad that you guys both said that because you misunderstood what I said.
[00:27:26] I'm gonna clarify and then this will make it easier. So you guys were both talking about the levels of orgasm, which I think of as how much energy you get out of the orgasm as a ratio to how much energy you put in, right? So like a level one or two orgasm, it takes a lot more energy to have it and then you don't wanna stay in in that energy cuz it's not a juicy energy anymore.
[00:27:49] And the level three and four. less energy to have and gives you a whole lot more. So there's a more of a desire and interest to continue that, and you're creating a, you're adding more to your battery so you have more energy for the rest of your life as well. But that isn't what I was talking about. I was actually talking about the, um, the different types of orgasms.
[00:28:11] So I run into this fairly often in my practice where men will. This idea because this is what our society teaches them and what porn teaches them. And I'm not anti-porn, by the way. I'm totally comfortable with porn and it can be very useful. Uh, and it sounds like it's been a problem for you, so you do what you need to do.
[00:28:32] However, the different types of orgasms, uh, the one that most men think of as an orgasm is the one where you have a hard cock and you ejaculate. And that's generally the only quote unquote valid orgasm. Uh, and then the, There are four other types of orgasms. So there's one where you have a soft cock and you ejaculate.
[00:28:53] There's one where you have a soft cock and you don't ejaculate, but you do have an orgasm. There's one where you have a hard cock and you don't ejaculate, and then there's the breath orgasm, which is the entire whole body orgasm. And these are all listed in the Kuka book. So if you wanna go and look 'em up, you can go and check 'em out.
[00:29:10] But one of the reasons I bring it up is because a lot of shame for men in our culture resides around. Those are and what they look like and how it can't have been a complete love making session if we didn't have the, that one orgasm with the hard cock and the ejaculation. So it sounds like you guys have started to reprogram some of what you think is sex and intimacy and checking out that book and some of the things that remind you about different ways of beauty in in the different types of orgasms might be really helpful.
[00:29:42] I found for myself that. If I look back over a night or two with a lover that I really enjoyed and I get to look and go, Oh, that was a South orgasm and that was a, Oh, and then when we did that, that, oh my gosh, we actually had like seven orgasms that night that we weren't really counting it. It changes your perception of yourself instead of, I'm acting like the porn people versus I'm having a really, really good connection with this really.
[00:30:11] Beautiful person that I care about a lot. And oh, it's expressing itself in different ways at different times. How interesting. I love that .
[00:30:20] Brian: Yeah, that's interesting. It just buts right up against that like performance thing of like, I'm not doing it right. So it, it feels like so much to let go into and, um, Yeah, I guess it's, the wild thing about this relationship is I have enough trust for Sherry and she is a big enough container to, to do that work and let go into, which is an amazing thing right now.
[00:30:46] We're on a daily basis where every step we take in our relationship is like, this is new territory. Like I, this is the most whatever I've ever, you know, And a lot of it's intimacy. Like I've just never been to this place with a woman before. It's, it's awesome. The, like, the valleys and the like, the scary parts can be rough, but we break through into something new and it's just like, wow, I just didn't know this was possible in life.
[00:31:14] Rebecca: I love hearing that.
[00:31:16] Sherry: Me too. Yeah. I, I feel like, um, I have a lot of like judgment of myself as far as like sex goes because of my limited. , um, definition of orgasm and my sort of like belief that I have about myself, that there's something off about my vagina because I'm not able to experience the intense Pleasure that I believe other people do.
[00:31:44] And a lot of it is just story, but you know, also being in Kska and, um, reading the book and, and knowing that there's other possibilities out there like, well, , why haven't I had that or why can't I do that? And um, so I'm really like a achievement driven person and I feel like a failure, I guess. And so that's not sexy , you know?
[00:32:10] And, and I, I think I could do a lot of work around, not work at all, but just like not having a goal of some kind of a climax and, and just touching and. Enjoying and talking and you know, like relaxing. Yeah, it's funny. It's like all this work that I think I could do, it's like the trick is not to do any work and to just feel and breathe and relax.
[00:32:42] Rebecca: Yeah. It's funny how little work work can be sometimes . Yeah, . Especially when it's play. And here's another thing that you guys would probably find really fun and helpful. I did an episode way, way back at the beginning where I talked about 92nd waves and waves of energy and how to follow the wave of the energy.
[00:33:04] And part of the reason that I did that episode was. I had a lover at the time who was so goal focused that he would just pump my pussy so hard for like 45 minutes. And at some point I was like, Okay, look, that is really fun. And I definitely like that about a quarter of the time. And the rest of the time, it would be nice if we.
[00:33:25] Followed the energy a bit more instead of forcing it to be someplace that it's not. So what we started doing is making an agreement that, Hey, tonight, tonight we're both sleepy and we, we want to play, but we're not going to expect to have anything happen. However, we wanna follow whatever waves show up.
[00:33:43] So we'll be laying in bed and falling asleep and then, They would touch me someplace and then I would feel something and then I would touch them back a little bit and it was, it was very short. Like seriously, it would be 90 seconds from the beginning to the peak and then down to the other side. And then we would just go back to laying together.
[00:34:00] And sometimes that would string a whole bunch of those together and sometimes it would end in sex and orgasm, and sometimes it was just because it felt nice and it was a good way of connecting. It was a way of connecting physically. And it was a way of connecting heart to heart, and it was a way of allowing each other to be where we were right in the moment.
[00:34:21] And it was just nice taking that pressure off and relaxing and recognizing that what we were looking for was the energy not the end, or looking for the, the crest and the expansion and the feeling pushed forward or pulled in or any of. . That sounds so
[00:34:42] Sherry: good. And I love your voice, like, I love how you describe it.
[00:34:45] So ,
[00:34:47] Rebecca: thank you very much. You're welcome. My nice little radio mic right here. Yeah,
[00:34:52] Sherry: yeah. Like I, I really, it's funny, I guess it just never seems like an option to, to do less. It's kind of like if we're not gonna do everything, we should, just should do nothing and then not talk about it and then just be kind of, I don't know.
[00:35:08] Rebecca: Disconnected, You know where that is. Right. Where completely disconnected and not wanting to be together. Yeah. Which I mean, you know. Yeah,
[00:35:19] Brian: exactly. Yeah. And that's, I feel like that's today's agreement. Literally today's agreement is to communicate more and when that stuff comes up, start talking. If it's right in the middle of it, talk about it right then and there, and really be honest about what's going on.
[00:35:36] Rebecca: That's lovely that you're connecting the honesty and the openness with the intimacy that comes pa at the end of that.
[00:35:43] Brian: Yeah. Well I think, I think that my encouragement and message to other people, because it's something I've wrestled with, is like instead of being, making a facade to try and keep someone, it's like my goal in life is to be me.
[00:35:59] Hopefully be acceptable. If not, then I'm with the wrong person. And focus on taking that risk though to be really authentic and like, what do you have to lose? Like you're either living in a delusion or you're with the right person and they accept you just how you are and what an amazing freedom that is.
[00:36:18] It seems so not what our culture teaches us, um, you know, to try and be the right person. All the games you can play to keep somebody or whatever, but just being authentic and keeping that, The goal seems really, at least for us because we're both really aligned, just seems really weird. The whole, the whole point of it.
[00:36:42] And it feels like sex is almost, um, better. Sex life is almost, uh, an unattended consequence of. Really getting closer as people.
[00:36:56] Rebecca: I think it's the intended consequence. It's just one that is so hidden. It's not really known until you get it. No,
[00:37:04] Brian: I'm, I'm really, I am really curious. So we had this big breakthrough yesterday and then the place that we're at has a hot spring that's like 95 degrees and it's probably barely 70 out. So it feels amazing.
[00:37:17] You just can't believe you're in a pool this warm, and we're just sort of like basking in this after blow of this big breakthrough and closeness we've created. Kissing and kissing and the bliss feeling that I had was absolutely through the roof. So I'm wondering if that's one of your, if that's the type of orgasm, cuz like, it's clearly feels like sexual energy and the bliss was amazing and it carried through the whole day.
[00:37:42] I mean, it was hard to sleep last night. How much amazing energy. , but I don't think of that as sexual because our clothes were on.
[00:37:51] Rebecca: Of course it can be sexual if your clothes are on. Right, . No, I understand that that impulse and I, I don't know if I would call that an orgasm. I, I would definitely say that it's running energy though.
[00:38:04] Running energy and that's. Uh, adding up to a lot of that bliss that you're finding a lot of those oxytocin hormones and quite possibly serotonin and vasopressin hormones that are creating a lovely cocktail for both of you. That's putting big, big smiles on your face.
[00:38:25] Sherry: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That it's like it's a state of being. Yeah. ,
[00:38:33] Rebecca: you know, and,
[00:38:34] Sherry: and it, to me, it felt like as the day was going on, I was kind of realizing like, this is a, this is a choice and this is a result of just not hiding something or, or not, like, you know, forcing something down. And it's, yeah, it's just more along the lines of relaxing into.
[00:39:01] Life as it is and not having fear about judgment or rejection or
[00:39:08] Rebecca: whatever. It's like not letting the fear win, cause fear will still be there, but you don't have to let it be the one that takes home the the victory.
[00:39:22] Yeah. It's interesting too that you guys have brought up a couple of times this, like what's acceptable, what's not? It's not okay to do this. It's not okay to do that. Are you familiar with the Madonna Horror Paradox?
[00:39:36] Brian: Well, I understand it that, um, Italian guys don't like to have sex with their wives after they've had kids because it's like she's the mother of your children and this is like this dirty thing to do.
[00:39:50] So men like to have a whore and they like to have a mother, and it's like the two don't mix. So they keep them really well separated. And it's definitely not all Italian guys, but ,
[00:40:05] Rebecca: right? It's not just for Italian men, but I think that is a big piece of where it came from, that Catholic church and the fact that that's based in Italy and.
[00:40:15] The whole concept of this is acceptable and this is not, that is something that every couple has to face at some point and find out are they going to be the kind of couple that says we can do these acceptable things and we can't do these acceptable things. Whether they talk about it or not, most of the time it's not even spoken about.
[00:40:35] It's just mentally. There's now this wall , right? And it is not a helpful. It is something that I recommend taking a look at in your conversations, talk about what you guys are drawn to and excited by, because I think you'll find more often than not, things that you believe are not acceptable are actually pretty hard and interesting.
[00:41:03] Or the things that you are afraid are too hot and interesting are actually like, Yeah, that's not actually that big of a deal. Cause I. This person right here who I actually get a fantastic connection with when we talk. So that is a, Sorry,
[00:41:22] Sherry: go ahead. I would say for me, I don't, I don't have the, um, the feelings around like what's acceptable because I feel, um, pretty comfortable in my body and really open.
[00:41:35] Exploring different things or trying different things. For me, it's what comes up is, um, yeah, let's do anything. And hopefully I feel something like I'm, I'm expecting some like sensation change or shift or intensity. And then when that doesn't come, I'm like, Oh, okay, now we're doing this cool, sexy thing, but I'm not really there.
[00:41:58] It's, you know, so it's like I, um, I would like to have this relationship with my body. I'm not nervous about not feeling the intensity level that I want and just being able to have fun and allow, you know, whatever naturally is gonna happen without those thoughts in my head.
[00:42:22] Rebecca: Yeah, I'm excited for another conversation post de armoring.
[00:42:26] Okay. Cause I think you're going to have a, a wild experience there and you're gonna come back with a lot more to say and or ask about that because Yeah. It will do something for you. Yeah. . Yeah. And, and it will make you face that too. I mean, you'll have to be facing. Every day, what, What is my body doing?
[00:42:47] And am I okay with that? So I think you'll be surprised at how quickly you adapt and how what seemed erotic, but didn't add any energy into your physical system will be easier for you to use that as a filtering mechanism. , like what actually is bringing some kind of arousal or energy right now? It doesn't have to be the thing that you think it should be.
[00:43:12] It doesn't have to be this intense, sexy thing. In fact, oftentimes it isn't. Especially oftentimes at first it isn't. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. Like can you give an example, an example of.
[00:43:29] See, I know we've talked a little bit, maybe even in the last episode, about being in your body and pausing until your body says yes and to go, And I might have told you this too, um, but I know at work when I'm with somebody new, It's usually me that has to set the pace slow enough for my body to catch up with us.
[00:43:55] And so I've learned, and really this is through trial and error, but I've learned that it takes at least, I don't know, 10 minutes, bare minimum. Of making out for me to feel this like softness, this opening in my body and this relaxing in my pussy, my pussy lips open up a little bit and I can tell things are changing.
[00:44:15] Things are ready to move forward to the next step at least, and that is 10 minutes. after connecting with the person, having a clean house, having my food, you know, my body completely fed, and all of those things. So remember that. Those are important things too. If you're not supporting yourself, your body, mentally, physically, et cetera, to actually be present and have an orgasm, of course you're gonna get distracted.
[00:44:40] And even when you do support yourself, you are gonna get distracted at first, and you're the one who gets to say, Let me tune back in for a second. Maybe let's just kiss more for a little while. Maybe. Let's do this. Yes. My pussy was wet for a minute, but it's not quite eager for your cock, so let's just keep, Let's keep fondling my breasts.
[00:45:00] Let's keep doing this thing. Pull my hair a little bit or whatever it is that you're finding starts to. Jumpstart your body a little, but that's your job is to find what jump starts you, what excites you, what arouses you, and then to communicate that so that they know, Oh fuck yeah, that's a hot button.
[00:45:19] I'm going to push that when I want that.
[00:45:23] Sherry: Thank you. I love
[00:45:25] Rebecca: that. Is that helpful? Yeah. I feel like we might have said exactly the same thing last time, but I could be wrong. Well, I do remember you
[00:45:31] Sherry: talking about slow, like go slower. Slower than you think slower. That's it. So, um, I do remember that part, and thank you for that Descript and everything that's, that's really, that's awesome.
[00:45:44] I, I definitely, um, as far as my communication, I would love to do a better job with telling Brian, like, specifically what do I want? What feels good? What can he do? You know, I'm, I just get kind of quiet and. And don't, Yeah, like almost like I'm not entirely participating, like I'm there, but I'm like waiting for something to happen.
[00:46:11] So much so that I'm almost like out of the experience. So it's, it's like a balance of, of staying there, speaking and feeling.
[00:46:21] Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. It is a little bit of everything. , In my experience, it, it is possible to go into 100% feeling and to have your partner be willing to just totally pick up on all of your nonverbal signals.
[00:46:36] And it's also takes a little while to get to that, especially if you haven't been honest or real or. As expressive about what feels good and what doesn't feel good as most people when they start a new relationship. So the more honest and open you are about that, the quicker he'll find the authentic buttons and the easier it will be.
[00:47:00] The other thing is, I don't know how much you are participating in this yourself, but if you are laying back and really not doing anything, which is actually really common whenever there's oral sex involved, whether. You're receiving or you're giving, Usually the person that is receiving has a lot less to do and keeping them involved somehow can be a way of maintaining that, both that mental and that physical connection.
[00:47:30] Cuz there's something about that person is way down there. I can't touch them anymore, they can't touch me. A lot of the erogenous songs that we were just playing with are now. Gone. Oh, no . And so it, it changes that dynamic if you're not thoughtful about it. Um, I have found that I really, really like to be fingered and to have a vibrator on my clitoris.
[00:47:50] And so I will team up with my partner to do that. I'm like, Hey, I can't do the fingering myself. Would you finger me? I'll play with my CL together, will make me come a couple of times and that way we'll really start to find those places where they can tell even before I know what I need, but the. The both of us working together to share makes it in a way easier to communicate with words too.
[00:48:19] Cause usually whoever's fingering me has to find a way to get their hand out of the way of my claris, which is not easy . But if they, sometimes they have to sit up, Sometimes I have to lay in an awkward way. But once we get that, And then we get some of the other things going. It just becomes a really nice amount of teamwork and intimacy that grows between us.
[00:48:39] So I don't know if that will help you, if that will work, and that's been something that's worked for me really well. I
[00:48:47] Sherry: would like to do that.
[00:48:51] Awesome. That sounds great. More homework. We go.
[00:48:57] Rebecca: Well, it should be fun. It is. I call it play work, AKA clerk. So you can do your clerk in your camper. Yes. Oh my God. And have a good time. Okay. You too. What are you gonna take home from your visit to Seattle and from your podcast interview? I feel like.
[00:49:19] Sherry: Just like being brave enough to, to be real and be present and take, taken the risk of
[00:49:30] Rebecca: saying things and um, and
[00:49:35] Sherry: not really having an attachment to an outcome.
[00:49:39] Yeah. And just like leaning into something mysterious that. That wants to teach something. Yeah. I don't know. And that I wanna have more like just connection, like laying around and not being so regimented and rigid around sex. Like have an openness and a
[00:50:08] Rebecca: playfulness. Fantastic. Yeah, I think that'll serve you really well.
[00:50:14] Mm-hmm. ,
[00:50:16] Brian: I feel like a couple things. One is I feel a lot more desire to explore, um,
[00:50:28] you and my desires. And I, I feel like the energy I need to bring is like more drive to push you and yeah, I feel like. I feel some things about drawing you out more and like pushing you to be more open or communicate, and I think that's the big thing that's coming away from the last couple days is like not, not guessing, not tending or whatever, but like really communicating more and really holding the line that you do it to you really.
[00:51:12] Push in and, mm-hmm. be more present in the middle of it. It's like instead of dancing around the ring, like just square up in the middle and fight . Don't avoid it, just get to it. Yeah,
[00:51:27] Rebecca: that's some sage advice. Yeah. . Well with that, I think I will leave you too in your camper to fight or whatever you're going to do next.
[00:51:38] and thank you so much for being on the show. I'd love you to have you guys on at another time too. I think this will be fun for your explorations. . Thank you so
[00:51:46] Brian: much. Rebecca. Maybe, maybe we can get together and you can leave your clothes on. We'll have sex and we can just, like, that could be the podcast, right?
[00:51:54] Rebecca: That actually would be a fascinating podcast. That is how this show started. Did you know that? No. Yes. Yeah. Some, Uh, one of my lovers was going down on me and. Offering me scientific facts about hormones and biology and genitals while he was doing that. And I was like, Oh my God, other people need to hear this.
[00:52:14] So we just set up a microphone and recorded it.
[00:52:19] Thank you. So thanks. See you later.