[00:00:42] Hello Bruce, and welcome to Pleasure Central. Radio. It's so good to have you here. Thank you. How you doing? I'm doing great. That's nice to see your face. Yeah, so you and I met a few years ago, maybe six or seven years ago at a sexuality workshop, and we have always had a couple of things in common. One that I have been poly and into ethical non-monogamy for years and years, and you have too, but being the.

[00:01:12] Masculine piece of that, or I'm a very feminine being, being on the masculine side of things. I know that you experience that very differently and the way that you approach your metamours and the way that you approach dating I'm sure has to be a little bit different too. So I wanted to bring you on the show.

[00:01:28] I talk about that and see what wisdom you have for me and for some of my friends about how to engage in this in a way that feels really good for everybody and where everybody is getting. needs an excitement met. What do you think? I think it's great.

[00:01:43] Bruce:: Great. Yeah. Glad to be here.

[00:01:46] Rebecca:: So where should we start?

[00:01:49] Do you wanna give me a little history of your w working in the world of open relationships?

[00:01:57] Bruce:: working is probably a, a good term. It can be some work, sometimes the, the path of much communication, should we call it. Yeah. For me, open relationship really started with a complete surprise that there was such an option.

[00:02:15] I met a woman once upon a time, I guess it's been about 12 years ago, and approached her with some interest and she was receptive since she said, sure, and you also need to know that I'm also seeing other. Which I responded, you know, we're, we're both dating, I understand, and, and she said, no, I'm actually more than dating.

[00:02:38] I'm involved in multiple other relationships. And I was pretty confused, of course. And then she went on to explain what that meant and that it was so unusual. It was completely out of my sphere of experience to be in multiple relationships where everyone knew about everyone else. I had. I'm trying to remember.

[00:03:01] I'm pretty sure I've never had a long-term relationship up to that point that I hadn't cheated on someone. Well, long-term or short-term eventually. And the idea that I could actually be faithful to my word and be honorable and integrity. To my partner or my partners, which I didn't even imagine was possible at that point was extremely attractive and exciting to me.

[00:03:25] So I kind of bumped along that first relationship, encountering a lot of the things people do when they first encounter open relationship. Dragged my knuckles on some of the obstacles, and actually I think I came up to speed pretty fast based on I'm naturally an open person in that regard. So I think I found my species.

[00:03:46] As someone would say, the people that engage in consensual non-monogamy or my tribe.

[00:03:54] Rebecca:: It's really interesting that you started out that way, and I'm curious if you'd be willing to share. In my experience, a lot of people that have had relationships that didn't have. All the integrity at some point, but then they find a way of being able to be open and real and connecting clearly open-heartedly, I guess, with their partners and still getting what they want.

[00:04:18] There's often a hump where they've been feeling guilt or blame or shame about how they interacted, but also knowing that they had to, and it's a very complicated emotional mire. Did you have any of

[00:04:32] Bruce:: that? Yeah. And. Kind of still do, I still notice even after doing this for over a decade, that there's still a piece of me that hesitates sometimes to tell the truth about what I'm thinking about doing or who I'm interested in.
[00:04:48] Um, and I've isolated to be simply fear of rejection. Sometimes that's fear of reprisal, but mostly I. Just the basic fear of somebody's gonna say, no, that's wrong. Shameful, you're crazy, et cetera. In the beginning it was almost easier it seemed like, because I think I was a little numb to some of the sensitivities.
[00:05:11] All of it. I was simply in that kind of new phase of being honest, you know, when you're honest with everybody to the fault and haven't developed some compassion around timing or, or how to be compassionate in my honesty. So that's come along also with some mistakes. But yeah, to your point, it's still, there's still a wiggle there or a little a nudge there sometimes for me to need to exert a muscle of authenticity and honesty.
[00:05:42] Have you found
[00:05:43] Rebecca:: any shortcuts or reminders that are helpful for you in keeping that integrity intact? Really
[00:05:51] Bruce:: love the term ethical non. Something about the word ethical rings true for me. I'm an old boy scout, what can I say? The first Boy Scout law is a scout is trustworthy. So I have always resonated with that and it, it just hearkens back to my core values.
[00:06:09] So what I remember, like the technique or the tip would be remembering what it's like, the consequences when I've lied, when I've withheld, when I've covered up, changed the truth. All of those things. The pain look on someone's face or that feeling of getting caught out. That scared hollow sensation in my chest when I know that I have gotten caught and it's just the worst feeling in the world, and that's enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.
[00:06:40] Yeah,
[00:06:41] Rebecca:: I think it's similar for me that the only time when I had quote unquote cheated was over 20 years ago, and it's the same. Thing. You know, it feels like I don't ever wanna have to feel that again. I don't want to impact anybody else in that way. And look, I don't have to, if I just take a breath, pause and wait a day before I do what I'm gonna do, so yeah.
[00:07:05] Bruce:: I think that, um, what you just said about taking a pause and waiting is definitely one of the muscles to be developed for me. I tend to be quick and need to make a decision right now generally about things, and that usually doesn't work to my. Advantage are in my favor in this, this whole arena. There's nothing that is worth waiting for.
[00:07:25] Seems to be a better strategy. Yeah,
[00:07:28] Rebecca:: that's a good point. Yeah. And I feel like I've grown a lot too, where now pretty much all of my partners and I have an understanding about when I'm not home, when I'm around, when I'm traveling, things like that. There's, there's not a need to ask or to share. Just that I always come back as long as I come back.
[00:07:46] I know it's fine and I'm gonna be still in the relationship with them, but it has taken a while to get there and it's taken a lot of radical honesty about what I'm doing and, and who and when.
[00:07:59] Bruce:: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's always one of the questions that takes a lot of, a lot of negotiation, A lot of communication for me has been the how much to disclose.
[00:08:10] And when to disclose. I try to use a, a, a litmus test of if an idea moves out of my head into reality , like if I'm taking action on an idea somehow, like if I start to conversation with someone, that's different than just seeing someone and being interested. But if I'm actually having those thoughts and they're going to move into reality or action, that's a pretty good time to start, including my partner or my partners.
[00:08:39] Anything after that seems to be too late. Often I know that it doesn't feel good for me to get feedback like, oh, so you've already spoken with her, or something like that. It's better to. Just not quite a brain dump because I think my brain is probably a landscape most people don't want to get involved with too closely
[00:09:02] But when the ideas start involving them, like I met someone at the yoga studio, I'm interested in thinking about starting a conversation with her that might lead to a date. What does that bring up for you when I say that?
[00:09:14] Rebecca:: Ooh, ooh. That is really great phrasing and really, I love that. That's so early.
[00:09:20] Fantastic way to go. Yeah.
[00:09:22] Bruce:: Yeah. There's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of good material out there in communication, around sharing with people to elicit feelings as opposed to deductions or, you know, let's keep it in the heart. And as opposed to the brains, the brain, the mind typically aren't as, aren't as good as indicators.
[00:09:44] What I call reality is our feelings in the moment.
[00:09:47] Rebecca:: Yeah, fair. All right, so let's say you do decide to go and have that conversation with that person at yoga class, and they are very interesting and it turns out they're also into ethical non-monogamy. What do you do then?
[00:10:05] Bruce:: Then I clap my hands and say, yay.
[00:10:08] That doesn't happen that often. Usually that conversation is more difficult than you just indicated. So if I've gotten that far, it's a definite yay. And after the clapping and cheering, usually it's back to my partner and I'll say partner rather than partners, plural. In what I've discovered for myself is that I am more effective, more happy, more able to use my energy well with a primary partner.
[00:10:37] My version of open relationship will most typically look like a primary hierarchical monogamy, non-monogamy arrangement. Where I've got one girlfriend, I use the term girlfriend as the lady that I'm spending the majority of my time and energy with. The one that I'm building a future with, if you. And so the next conversation would be with that lady saying, remember the woman at the yoga class I had mentioned, well, we had a chat and she's interested.
[00:11:10] Now, how does it land for you that this might be something we would wanna do and. Depending on how she feels about that and what her says, ideally there's a response and not a reaction. We can all take those deep breaths and let things land so that we can have a response rather than a reaction if she does have a response.
[00:11:30] I know that I have done my job in the communication at least of, of. In a way that she has options that I haven't dropped something on her by surprise that she feels included. I think one of the foundational pieces I've been discovering is the sense of inclusion in all this. It seems like most. Of the time when there's hurt feelings or some sense of ness in open relationship, it's often about feeling excluded.
[00:11:59] Not part of the decision making process, not part of the conversation, maybe not part of the fun. And so if she feels. Like it's a good idea moving forward. Then typically I'll have the new person contact my existing partner. Okay. And this will usually act as another sort of litmus test for, is this a good fit?
[00:12:23] Is this a good match? If a person has enough, what would you call it? Emotional maturity. Emotional development and or experience in open relationship to reach out to my. And have a conversation. In this case, woman to woman, I'm going to be very encouraged. Like this is someone who has the vocabulary, that has the ability to actually be in a relationship with somebody who has a primary partner.
[00:12:52] And that can look quite a bit different than other types of configurations, like maybe in a, I'm not sure of all the terminology, but in a flattened out, non-hierarchical structure,
[00:13:01] Rebecca:: for example. I like that. I'm curious. Have you got any idea what those conversations generally sound like when, when one of your new potential partners contacts your girlfriend?
[00:13:14] Bruce:: I make a point of not. What I've found is that in my world, I'm dating females, female Humans, ideally haven't been off planet yet. The ferry realms are hard to get to, so mostly human females and. If there's anything stronger than the bond between two women, the sisterhood bond, I don't know what it is.
[00:13:38] It's, it's a magical, magical space. And as a human male, it's just not my realm and I found it counterproductive to get involved in those communications. It, it's kind of short-circuiting the process. I would just open the door to, because. If this is going to be successful, A large part of that is going to be based on those two women having some kind of relationship independent of me.
[00:14:07] If they're going through me for their relationship, then we're in some kind of triangle or V shape that is just, it's, I'm an engineer by trade, so I'll use the word inefficient. When the women are connecting directly and they have their own relationship based on their own understanding and needs. Then I think we've got a better shot.
[00:14:27] I will say that I came up with this, uh, strategy more based on experience from myself contacting someone else's partner. Okay, so in the flip side of this equation, If I approach this woman from the yoga studio and she has an existing partner, then it would be my desire to be in communication with him directly as well.
[00:14:50] One of the, some of my earliest experiences showed me that this is the, it's really the only way that we all know. That we are being ethical and truthful. It's, it's good to have faith and it's even better to verify the truth, in my opinion, when I'm speaking with this partner directly than I've got as good as, as close to the truth as I could possibly get.
[00:15:16] It's not being translated by the person that I'm interested in and their opinion and And
[00:15:20] Rebecca:: filters. Yeah. That is helpful. I have been bitten by that a couple of times, letting those messages go through somebody else. Yeah,
[00:15:29] Bruce:: and sometimes it's conscious and sometimes it's not. Sometimes they're filtering on purpose and sometimes they're not.
[00:15:35] And there's, there's just an easier, more direct route. I shouldn't say easier. It's definitely not easier. It's definitely more direct.
[00:15:43] Rebecca:: Definitely not
[00:15:44] Bruce:: easier. I agree. Definitely not easier and not altogether that hard either In those cases when the partner doesn't want to communicate with me. For example, that's a pretty big red flag to me, that there's unsettled territory inside that relationship.
[00:16:00] I will make the, the strong distinction that I personally am not a fan of, the don't ask, don't tell strategy, and when I encounter somebody who's practicing, don't ask, don't tell. I'll probably avoid interacting intimately with them in my experience. That is simply a bad strategy. , I won't call it a fantasy because I think there are probably people who do it successfully.
[00:16:27] Yeah, and it's a spectrum how much to tell obviously, or how little to disclose or how much, and the idea that I'm going to be interacting with your partner. But you don't want to know about it strikes me as non-reality.
[00:16:42] Rebecca:: I agree. I'm the same way. Don't ask, don't tell, does not work for me. It's an absolutely hell no when I come across it.
[00:16:51] And for me, I don't know if it's because it is a fantasy or just because it engenders fantasy. It creates. Place where you know, you don't necessarily know what's going on in the other person's life. You are just in this tiny little bubble. And what's the reality of their life is not always open to you, or the reality of their life is not open to their partner one way or the other doesn't really matter.
[00:17:16] But either way, it creates enough separation that at some point there will be heartbreak and most likely it's gonna be me. So . Yeah. So I'm a hell no for that.
[00:17:26] Bruce:: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been very interesting for me to reach out and connect with people that way, and it's almost always been in my experience so far, I'm usually the one initiating that or the more experienced of the partners.
[00:17:41] There's been a few cases where we're on the same. Experience level. More often than not, it's, it's a new concept to the partner and they're usually curious. Usually the question starts with, well, why do you want to talk to me and I'll share what I just shared with you, essentially that now I'm getting the straight communication and I'm able to know exactly where you're coming from, or at least as good as you can describe to me.
[00:18:07] I usually won't share with them that I'm also assessing things. Hostility level or checked out level. You know, are they really engaged here or is this some sort of, yeah, ongoing fantasy, et cetera, et cetera. So it's been surprising how many times people don't. Want to continue the conversation. To me, I'm still kind of surprised by that and not surprised, maybe disappointed would be a better word.
[00:18:34] I'm, I'm a little disappointed sometimes that it, that people don't want more connection with the metamor, and yet it's become not surprising in a way because. That seems to be a A
[00:18:46] Rebecca:: common thing. Yeah, I can say it can be very emotionally challenging and draining to have a relationship with a metamor depending on how everybody's looking at the situation.
[00:18:58] For me, especially if I'm seen as like the side lover, that is really hard. Well, I guess probably for everybody, but. Too hard for me to have a good relationship with Metamor, if that's the perspective of me, if that's how I'm seen in their family or something like that, because it doesn't at all reflect the relationship that I'm creating with somebody.
[00:19:22] So then it becomes, An extra layer of illusion and fantasy, which I'm not interested in. So yeah, having a metamore relationship is an extra interesting, challenging thing. And it's almost like, you know, when you get married, people say you marry your partner's family well, when you're poly, you're kind of entering into a relationship with whoever else is in their molecule.
[00:19:46] Mm-hmm. , even if it's a generic simple sort of at an arm's length kind of distance relationship, it still still is. Hmm. Have you had some really good caring meta relationships that you're willing to share? I really can't
[00:20:01] Bruce:: say that I have. No, I think that would be nice experience, and what I'm finding is that this seems to be a realm of.
[00:20:11] Women more than men. And since I'm CE dating women, their partners are typically men. And I haven't found a lot of guys that are that interested in being poly geeks. Definitely more ladies doing that. So I would love to be mentored. I would love to be taken under someone's wing in this area and, and brought up even more so, and I've not,
[00:20:36] Rebecca:: Yeah, I, I got really lucky, especially in the last couple of years, getting really close to some of my metas and it's been quite beautiful.
[00:20:46] But yeah, I think you're right. I think it is much more a woman's world in this particular arena relationship arena, and some of that is, I don't know. Probably a lot of single straight women don't really trust a man who says I have other relationships and I'm really being honest . So yeah, that's kind hard to, to figure out how to present yourself.
[00:21:09] Right. .
[00:21:10] Bruce:: Yeah. Yeah. So it's almost always been a failure if I am engaging with a single unattached woman and starting interest with her, like the lady at the yoga studio, for example. She had experience in our scenario, the one that I approached that doesn't have experience. Very rare. Is there an interest?
[00:21:32] I've only had a couple of experiences of bringing someone new into the fold completely. Someone who I met there was interest. I explained to her about my desire to be in an open relationship, my practice of that, and after that communication, she's still in the room, hasn't left the room, hasn't hung up the phone, et cetera.
[00:21:54] And honestly, it's, uh, quite a steep learning curve. Have yet to experience anyone that had the same kind of wake up call that I did. Also, again, kind of surprising to me that there aren't more naturally non-monogamous. Ladies that I'm meeting that all of a sudden are presented with an option they didn't know about.
[00:22:16] That was my unique history, perhaps. Uh, and I don't know that it's a pretty small sample set on my side. I don't know that I'm, um, I don't know that I'm qualified to bring new people on board, if you will. It's a, it's tough and. I'm finding more and more that it takes a special kind of support system and resources assessing what someone's history is and where they're at on the spectrum of interest.
[00:22:46] You know, are they interested because they're interested in me or are they interested because they might see some additional benefit to themselves. Like the benefit that I saw of being able to tell the truth about my desires. Are they using this idea as a a larger opening to expansion in a personal growth type of way?
[00:23:06] Some people really find the idea of liberating and freeing. They might have been in a long term relationship, 30 years of marriage. Now they're out and free and want to continue to be free. And yet I'm pretty sure that there's a thing called our species, those of us that are natural. Open and poly, and then folks that simply aren't going to get their heart and head around it in this lifetime.
[00:23:30] And dating inside the species still seems like a good strategy. Yeah,
[00:23:35] Rebecca:: I totally agree. It is much easier to date people that are already on board with a couple of key philosophies than it is to try and convert.
[00:23:43] Bruce:: I'm not sure conversion is even possible. Yeah. Awakening, giving information, educating, opening the door a little bit, but sort of propping the door open.
[00:23:54] I don't think there's much I'm going to be able to give somebody that they have to. Generated in themselves the, the, the courage and the willingness to move forward in the face of fears of all the anxiety that can occur. Uh, you've been doing this long enough to know how much communication is required.
[00:24:14] So much , so much. I consider myself a communicator and, and I still get more out.
[00:24:20] Rebecca:: Yeah, me too. So you have been doing this for a while, and you sound like your intent on continuing to do it. You must have some powerful op, powerful, good experiences that are fueling that. Would you share one of those?
[00:24:35] Bruce:: Hmm, yeah.
[00:24:37] I've been with several partners who are extraordinarily non jealous and support. And I didn't know the word conversion in the beginning of my journey. I came onto that later, much later actually. And experiencing a partner that is actually in conversion with me has been one of the most freeing, healing things I've ever experienced.
[00:25:01] Having a partner who is interested truly in my success and wellbeing and satisfaction and Pleasure, and it supports me in that by. Asking me questions or getting actively involved in my outside interests. That has completely shattered Any ideas of like the, the whole concept of jealousy kind of went out the window when I experienced.
[00:25:27] True. Not like somebody who doesn't have a jealous bone in their body, just don't really seem to occur to them. And I'm noticing how sharp a contrast that brings into my own, what I have to call now. Petty jealousies. Petty petty concerns. They seem so small when. Compared to not having that or not doing that, I think it's that feeling of being supported.
[00:25:50] The feeling of she really wants me to win. I can hear it in her voice. She's truly curious about what happened last night and when I tell her in some detail what happened last night, she's laughing and she's interested in asking probing questions, and it's actually fun for her to hear about my joy. That has been utterly remarkable to me.
[00:26:12] It's
[00:26:13] Rebecca:: life changing, isn. It
[00:26:14] Bruce:: is. It's I think, conversion, the idea of that way of wanting someone's joy more than anything else. It's essentially, it's unconditional love. I guess we needed another word because the poly tribe loves to invent words for things, .
[00:26:30] Rebecca:: We have to invent words to describe what we're doing.
[00:26:33] Bruce:: Yeah. And it strikes me as unconditional acceptance. And unconditional love in that way of support as well. I think true conversion includes not just acceptance, it includes being actively involved, asking those questions or having an interest. It's the polar opposite of don't ask,
[00:26:51] Rebecca:: don't tell. Yeah. It's, it's one thing to just not care what you're doing and it's another thing to care that you are getting what you really want, that you're able to find your passion and lust in life no matter who it's with.
[00:27:05] Bruce:: I had a, I have a partner. Currently that is that way, and she's actually supportive to the degree of coaching me. She has more experience in this than I do, so I'm now able to gain that benefit as well. She's not my primary partner, a lover and occasional lover even, and yet her level of support and enthusiasm for my journey has been revolutionary to experience someone who's truly giving to.
[00:27:35] With no thought of their own gain.
[00:27:38] Rebecca:: What a wild life, right? Yeah. . There was one other thing that I wanted to ask you about. I wanted to ask you about heart gifts because I know that this is something where we might have a little bit in common here. I, I had learned from a tradition that when you start interacting with someone's partner, it's polite and kind to.
[00:28:01] That person and give them some kind of a gift, something from your heart. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Maybe it's just a card with a little note in your phone number or whatever, but some kind of a heart gift to share yourself with them so that it's not just this person that's go out, going out and sleeping with my husband.
[00:28:18] It's some sweet woman who actually cares about me too. And I'm wondering, do you do anything like that and, and what does that look like between guys?
[00:28:28] Bruce:: Yeah, that's one of the practices that we do have in common. I think we both learned that through the same teachings and tradition, and it's a beautiful way of making it concrete.
[00:28:38] When we move from those words and speaking, typically a voice on a telephone isn't as real, especially to a man as when. A package shows up at my house and there's a pocket knife in there from this new man, and that just blew me outta the water. Like that was such a between men for me, the sign of respect and acknowledgement of a, of a kind of truth, again, the reality, this is real and I acknowledge it in a way that's real as.
[00:29:09] Actions, not words speak loudly.
[00:29:11] Rebecca:: That's a really cool gift too, guys. Like knives. Yeah. guys do like knives. It's true. You can never have too many knives, right? It's harder
[00:29:19] Bruce:: to mail guns.
[00:29:21] Rebecca:: True . Not everyone appreciates guns either, but knives, exactly. Knives are easy. Yeah. So have you been able to build any good relationships with Metamours through the gifting process?
[00:29:36] Bruce:: No, I think it speaks back to the earlier point that I haven't had a lot of luck building any long-term relationships with any of the metamours, and I shouldn't use a lot of plural in that. I don't have a great deal of experience with ongoing meta. Configurations. My partners with whom I've been open have tended to not have all that many partners.
[00:29:57] I'm usually the primary partner. If there's a lover, sometimes it's, I'd say it's probably been half. Ongoing and half not. And in the case of not ongoing, like if my partner meets someone at a retreat or conference when they're away on travel and it's a one-time event or one-time learning, and everybody's clear on that point, I typically won't engage with them as a metamore and found that to be all that useful in terms of time and.
[00:30:26] So I think based on small sample set the answer's no.
[00:30:30] Rebecca:: Well that makes sense actually. Just thinking of it's, it's helpful for me to hear how you're thinking about it, cuz I only know how I've thought about it and done it and the experiences I've had. So thank you so much for sharing some from the masculine side of things.
[00:30:46] Do you have any tips for anybody who does have the desire to engage this way with some of their male metamore?
[00:30:56] Bruce:: Yeah, I think in, in approaching a man directly and with clear communication shows respect, men like to feel included. I guess everyone likes to feel included, but I know that when I'm spoken to clearly and directly with no ambiguity, not a lot of metaphors, not a lot of hand waving.
[00:31:16] It's very direct. I'm interested in going out with your girl. We can have a communication about that, we can have a conversation about that and become clear that he's interested in my girlfriend for the following reasons, and that he has an existing relationship that he considers primary or he doesn't have an existing relationship and he's hungering for one, and he really thinks my girlfriend is the bomb.
[00:31:42] And there's a different, different types of communication. So clarity and directness is always.
[00:31:49] Rebecca:: I like that clarity and directness, good communication skills. What about how to reach out? I know that this is a challenge for a lot of the people that I date, cuz a lot of my molecule and people have some kind of autism on the spectrum or engineering brain or something.
[00:32:06] And so interrupting someone else with a phone call feels really, really challenging. How do you recommend starting that conversation and getting the time set aside?
[00:32:17] Bruce:: I think the texting in this case is a great idea as step two, with Step one being the person we have in common. The person I'm interested in engaging with his partner has opened that line of communication first.
[00:32:31] Hey, I told you that I was interested in seeing Bruce or talking to Bruce from the yoga class, and Bruce is interested in this as well. And Bruce said that he would like to talk to you, talk, talk like on the telephone. Not necessarily in person. In person is okay too, but how do you feel about that? So they've established that that's okay.
[00:32:53] She can return that information to me so that I know that he's not a hell no. Don't ask, don't tell, or just not interested. And then if he's given me his phone number, I take that as a yes to. When would be a good time to communicate? Send him a quick text. Hey, what are your hours? What's your availability?
[00:33:10] Something along those lines. Make it comfortable for them. Let them set a time. Make an appointment. It's always going to be a little jarring. Probably a little shocking when you get that first message. This is your girlfriend's new love interest . Ideally, we don't say it that way.
[00:33:28] Rebecca:: Ideally, how would you say it?
[00:33:30] Bruce:: Ideally, I would say, Hey, this is Bruce and Rebecca talked about me. I'm sure she's relayed that I've got an interest in her and I'd love to talk to you about that. What would be a good time for you? Smooth. Yeah, I can say it's smoother than I can text her probably. Yeah. .
[00:33:46] Rebecca:: I know sometimes translating something into text makes it, gives me more opportunity to overthink it.
[00:33:52] Bruce:: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes texting can be a little brusque or kind of shorthand. We, we tend to everything that we have going for us in terms of facial expressions and photo softness of tone and cues and things like, Pretty beneficial in communication, but the text is simply a way to set an appointment. I wouldn't try and communicate a motion through a text, for example.
[00:34:15] Yeah. That's smart. Very cool. There's one thing I wanted to, to mention too that I think might be a useful, um, backing up a couple of steps. I remember quite a long time ago when I was first entering this world of, of open relationship, multiple partners, one of the teachers gave a really good kind of criteria about engaging.
[00:34:35] I was curious about him and his partner and do they engage with others and et cetera, and they describe him and. Partner as well, both described an energy gain strategy, like why would I engage with this person, question mark. And the answer is if there's energy to be gained. And that also includes knowledge transfer, experience gained, and anything that might fall under that very vague category of an energy gain.
[00:35:10] And I found that to be a really good parameter for. To discern what's to be done here about this curiosity or this success that I have. I don't wanna oversimplify, but as again, a human male, I tend to look around the human female world and be interested in almost everyone. So narrowing the field, if you will.
[00:35:32] I, I'm old enough that I've had a lot of. Partners in general. It doesn't serve me anymore to simply engage for the sake of engaging. There's definitely something to be said for Variety or how's that country in Western Song go? The only thing she's got is that she's not you. kind of thing. My God, those aren't, yeah, I know.
[00:35:53] Those aren't really good enough reasons for me personally to engage anymore, and I found it much more useful to find partners based on what I imagine they can bring to the table. That's a little bit ruthless. It's a little bit self. Centered, um, and I think those are good attributes in this particular arena.
[00:36:15] Based on the kind of relationship I want to maintain. Primarily I'm interested in maintaining a primary, I won't call it almost exclusive, however, most of my focus is on my single one primary partner. So to keep that in focus, it helps me to narrow the. Of near the field of interest. Learn, grow. Yeah.
[00:36:40] Usually that's in a realm of challenge and expansion. Step up.
[00:36:44] Rebecca:: Yeah. And you called it ruthless, but I think it's really discerning is what it is. Better word. It might look ruthless to people that are being said no to when they're like, well, why, why am I not good enough? And it's, it's not about that. It's like you said, how does this add energy to my life?
[00:37:02] Mm-hmm. does it and does it add in the arenas that I.
[00:37:06] Bruce:: I found that also helps dramatically in the conversations with my primary partner. I've found over time that my primary partners have been hardened and and encouraged by that kind of approach. They're much more likely to be on board with my ideas when my ideas are actually about expansion and growth as opposed to.
[00:37:29] For IOT and
[00:37:30] Rebecca:: distraction, right? That's one thing. If you perceive your partner chasing a piece of hot tail. , which is, you know, the attitude that comes from it must just be because it's bright and sexy and it's not me. Right? Okay. So that, that's why you're chasing that versus, oh, there's actually something in that interaction for that person that you need for your life or for your dream or for your vision for the future.
[00:37:55] There's something for you to learn there, and I think wise and discerning partners can tell the difference when you talk about them and. It's still easy to jump to conclusions at the beginning of that process, and when you don't know for sure, you don't know what they're gonna get out of it.
[00:38:13] Bruce:: The learning curve.
[00:38:14] Rebecca:: Yeah. Quite a learning curve. I think at this point we must be, I don't know, college age at least learners in the realm of relationships. Yeah, I hope so. We're getting to the steep end of that curve.
[00:38:29] Bruce:: Yeah. Graduated some levels and there's still more to go. Yeah,
[00:38:33] Rebecca:: there's always more to go. Thank goodness. So since this is Pleasure, Central, Radio, Bruce, would you tell me what you associate with Pleasure?
[00:38:44] Bruce:: Freedom. Freedom to be my true, authentic self.
[00:38:48] Rebecca:: Yeah, me too. I'm glad that you found a way to be your true, authentic self. Really glad you stepped in.
[00:38:57] Bruce:: Me too. Yeah, it's, I hope more people have a chance to hit pause and about that if they've been presented with this idea or if they're. Interested in curious and exploring it.
[00:39:10] I hope they give themselves the opportunity to take that step and find out if this, if these options are available to them. Yeah.
[00:39:18] Rebecca:: Any last important notes that you'd like to share?
[00:39:22] Bruce:: I have been boasted at the amount of resources available recently, especially in the last year or two. How many open relationship coaches or polyamory integration specialists, or the whole support system.
[00:39:40] Through all of the amazing authors that have come online in the last few years, at least that I've been aware of in the last few years. The resources are, has really surprised me, especially in the last couple of years to, um, the explosion of social media since the pandemic has helped some of that getting.
[00:39:58] Support is so helpful, so
[00:40:00] Rebecca:: amazing. Yeah. So many places to find really good, thoughtful reactions and responses.
[00:40:08] Bruce:: I had a partner, a new prospect recently, who was um, completely brand new to this, to this idea, and they were just over and over kept saying how. I'm so glad that I heard that podcast. I'm so glad that I read that because what I was feeling is normal.
[00:40:26] It's normal to be awestruck, enraged, jealous, frustrated, beyond words. Those are all normal feelings in this environment, especially for someone who's hurting it for the first time. Yeah,
[00:40:37] Rebecca:: well, totally normal. It's a huge shift. It's like the world turns upside down overnight. Yeah.
[00:40:42] Bruce:: To find out they're not the only.
[00:40:44] It isn't catching on right away is super helpful for people that are just starting.
[00:40:49] Rebecca:: Yeah, I agree. It's taken me 22 years to have the grace and ease that I have with it. So you can't be that old. Come on. I, I am. Yeah. Surprise, surprise. Surprise. I started polyamory when I was 19, so it's Gotcha. Long time.
[00:41:09] Mm-hmm. Well, thank you so much, Bruce, for being on the show. I really appreciate your perspective and your offerings.
[00:41:15] Bruce:: Thank you. I adore
[00:41:16] Rebecca:: you. Yeah, likewise. I would love to have you on again someday, and good luck with the new. Partner.
[00:41:23] Bruce:: Thanks a lot. Talk soon.
[00:41:27] Rebecca:: Hey there, Pleasure Sacred. Well, that's it for today's conversation here at Pleasure.
[00:41:32] Central Radio. We love using conscious communication science, geeky and copious amounts of true Pleasure to improve our partnerships are money and our love lives, and we hope you do too. If you loved what you heard here. We love a review. You can do this easily on podcast players like Spotify and Apple Podcast.
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[00:42:10] Your thought to ponder today is and
[00:42:12] Bruce:: experiencing a partner that is. In conversion with me having a partner who is interested truly in my success and wellbeing and satisfaction, and Pleasure has been one of the most freeing, healing things I've ever experienced.