Jamien Rose 00:00
If you can be fully present in that moment in your whole self, there's possibilities that you might just not even see if your head is just miles ahead and you're just running around, you might miss something that's right there.

Rebecca Beltran: 00:15
Hey, you, thanks for tuning in. Just a quick heads up. This episode is rated PG 13. So expect to hear some mild language or adult concepts. Welcome to pleasure central radio, Jamie.

00:39
Thank you, Rebecca. Happy to be here.

Rebecca Beltran: 00:42
I'm excited you're here to Jamie and has been working on my body with my body for a few months now. And we've had some really powerful experiences, I wanted to bring her on the show, in part because some of the people I've been interviewing recently have had a lot of amazing physical experiences, whether it's been through massage, or bodywork or something else like that, finding ways to calm their nervous system to help their their brain and their body recover more quickly. And I wanted to bring some wholesome awareness to that and bring some tips and tricks and ideas that people can use to help themselves connect with themselves. And that in that way, be able to connect with each other. So, Jamie, and I know you have a ton of wisdom around this. When I bring up this topic, what jumps into your mind,

Jamien Rose 01:34
the first thing that jumps into my mind, Rebecca is getting deeply into my own internal wisdom, my own embodiment, so that I can share from there. That's the first thing that comes to me. And so we have such a deep well of wisdom and resources throughout our whole system, quite literally, physiologically, but also spiritually, emotionally. And I think it can be really powerful to have all of that for yourself, versus just living in your brain, which a lot of things in our society kind of lead lend themselves more to just living in one's brain.

Rebecca Beltran: 02:21
That makes sense. It's interesting that you describe it that way of getting back into your body to know what you want to say, can you tell us a little bit more about that for someone that maybe hasn't experienced that before the way you describe it?

Jamien Rose 02:35
I think that if you when you one hasn't experienced that, which I think many people have it, because many, many times we're so rewarded for the things that come just from our brain, you know, and I actually recently I've been in a very embodied life, started dancing when I was five, I've been embodied like, forever. And then at 40, I went back to grad school, and all of a sudden, there was no real room for embodiment, it was like you got to produce from your brain. And that's all we want. And I think that what I know about being just in the brain having been embodied, was that it it, it almost felt like I was distant, like I wasn't even did like I didn't even have a body, like I was kind of a floating head. And it was the strangest experience having never been there. And then after grad school coming back into my body, I've had even more awareness and appreciation for how much more information I have to live my life through if I can be in my whole self. Now, if one has never been there, which many of us have not. I think that it's hard to really know what that would feel like, because you can hear other people use all these words, the words are just pointing at the experience. It's a nonverbal experience that we're going to try to talk about today. But it is a nonverbal experience. And so there is almost this, like trust, there's almost this like seeing somebody who you feel off of them. This like sense of groundedness this sense of joy, maybe something that attracts you towards them. You can kind of feel it off of people if they're living through their whole selves. And if you feel even a lifter of that it's kind of having that curiosity of okay, something in that person that can feel how did they get there? What works, what is that and then just having the trust to start doing some of those modalities or those processes that worked for someone else, and seeing if what you get from them. I mean, I think initially, it's very like if you've just been your head can just be half feeling some sensation in your body, and then going deeper for Man,

Rebecca Beltran: 05:01
that's really interesting. So your comments are bringing two things to mind. For me, one is back in my like middle school days, and then probably again, in college, there were definitely points where I was much more focused on academic work. And I didn't really care or do anything particular with my body and walk to and from school, really. But it was baggy pants, it was clothes that were close, technically, but didn't say or mean anything at all. I wasn't really doing any sports at the time. So that to me, when you say being very head focused, or being very focused on what you produce with your head, that is what I'm relating it to, does that sound similar?

Jamien Rose 05:43
Yeah, definitely nodding my head, nodding my head about being head focus. And I want to say to that, in this, there's nothing wrong with being head focus, like we need our beautiful brains, like, all alluded to that, and we can have so much more. So there's no shame and you know, having this powerful thing really in your head. And I think the joy of it too, is that if you have that ability, it's not like you lose it. As you become more aware of your body, and your nervous system. And you don't lose any of that ability, you just get more.

Rebecca Beltran: 06:18
That makes sense. And then the other thing that it reminded me of, I had this very distinct experience in a park a few years ago, I was just spending some time there in a park that most people are either walking or running through. And there was someone there with their dog. And this person, I wasn't really sure what was going on with them, but they seem so present and connected. And their dogs seem so present and alert and connected. And I was watching these two beings for 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And this whole time, they were connected to each other, they were connected to the space, they were connected to the strangers as they walked by. And I remember walking away from that experience thinking this feels like real people. Like I don't know if I've ever met him up met a real person before until watching them experience life together and made a distinct impact on me. And so I'm wondering if what I was seeing and observing is kind of what you're saying about, you know, learning that body knowing and that connecting and you're not losing those skills, you're just using them in a different context in a different place.

07:31
I love that story.

Rebecca Beltran: 07:33
You can't

Jamien Rose 07:34
see visual on this. But I was like clapping my hands was like, oh, and yes, but I think that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's very, it's also could be equated to like being really in the Now really, in the present moment. Really hard to do that. If you are living mostly from your brain, much harder to just be really there in the moment versus like, racing, you know, there's nothing wrong. We all have moments where we're running to do something or thinking far ahead. These are not bad things. There's no shame in any of that. And if we can have also have that capacity to just be fully present. And it sounds like that's what you're witnessing, and the human. And it sounds like their dog. And the human were like symbiotically, fully present.

Rebecca Beltran: 08:21
Yeah, it was really cool. It almost made me want to have my own dog.

Jamien Rose 08:25
I think tags can be a great teacher for that. Because they are like, like when we're talking about being embodied there is something more doglike about it like they're so in the present moment. And they're so in their full selves. They're not letting their brain detached from we just as humans, we just have this capacity to like detach our brains from the rest of ourselves. And we can use that when we need it. But we don't need it all the time. Your story. Your story also reminded me of one of the best things that has ever happened in my life. Can I share that? That is actually how my husband and I met. It was from being fully present. We were both in a park in Manhattan. And there were all these people running by going really fast. Just kind of like what you're describing. And I had just moved there. And I was all like, I'm gonna stay in touch with nature, even though I'm in the city. So I'm like, sitting there trying to be grounded and present watching the sunset. And then I sent this energy to my left. And I looked over and there was this guy sitting there and he's like, reading. He's like smiling, laughing to himself. And he's like looking at the sunset. And he's like watching the people walking their dogs. And like this just kept happening and I got this intuitive sense that I needed to talk to him but I'd regret it if I didn't speak to him. So I went over and asked Some what time it was. And it turned out he and we started talking. And it turned out he had also noticed that I was really present. He was like, Who is what is that energy. And so it's also like, if you can be fully in your fully present in that moment in your whole self, there's possibilities that might you might just not even see. If you're not there. If you're just if you're hundreds of miles ahead, and you're just running around, you might miss something that's right there. Yeah.

Rebecca Beltran: 10:31
Okay. So now I'm curious how you transitioned from what you were talking about in grad school being so focused on what you are producing with your head, I know you as someone who has a very different quality in your life. So what happened?

Jamien Rose 10:46
You know, I think for me, because I never fully went into head producing, it's just I was in this vibe, it was like the was almost like, coming from being in this very embodied place. Going into this different vibration, it almost felt like I was on a different planet. And the atmosphere wasn't quite right for me, like I could survive, but it was hard to breathe. So as I was learning, figuring out I have to be in my head, if I'm going to get through this because it was right on my edge academically. Like if I had to majorly focus to do these things. It was just felt almost like this schism, the whole time of my body trying to be like, No, I'm here to, you know, focus on me too. And then being like, oh, no, I have to, like, bang out this paper, I have to just focus in my head and fit that computer. So for me, I think I never quite went fully into being in my head. But I had this real struggle the whole time. And then when I got out, part of me, it was still in that struggle phase. And it took, its took about six months, I think, after of like, for me to really realize that it was safe to be just fully in my whole self again, and I'd still have access to my brain, but that I didn't have to prioritize it so much. And the tools is like I have a lot of tools that I would try to use during grad school. And then after I just kind of up those tools to help me reclaim my whole self. And it was actually really interesting, because I had never thought that hard in my life. And so I actually have found that even as I've come back into feeling more in my gut instincts, more of my feelings, more of just the sensation throughout my whole body, I also have more access to my brain than I ever did. And that's been really neat. So again, being in your brain, not a bad thing, but still much more satisfying when you can be in all of it.

Rebecca Beltran: 12:45
That is very cool. It's like you've increased your capacities by stretching the edge. I love it. So you help people do this in your practice to what kinds of things do you like to help people with?

Jamien Rose 13:00
I actually have a thing that I wrote that I think I'll read, because I think it describes it well. Each individual I'll just say before, each individual is so different. So the way sessions look can be quite different for different people. But the gist of it is that I love to help people feel safer and more at ease. And there's so much meaning body psyche spirit, to enable deeper engagement in their meaningful life activities. The modalities I use include intuitive and light touch fascial, bodywork, nervous system regulation, gyro tag and other movement, somatic therapeutic parts dialog, activity analysis, and more. I help people with chronic conditions, which can be really anything that makes life in our society more difficult. So it can be things like neurological disorders, orthopedic, developmental, mental health. It can also be things like living with higher sensitivity, and things of that sort. So anything that makes life a little more challenging in the society, and also help the general adult population with wellness and prevention. That seems

Rebecca Beltran: 14:15
like it encompasses quite a lot. I know I came to see you because I was wanting more movement in some of my my scapula, my shoulders and my feet and my legs. And some of that or was the old injuries that had solidified things and in place that that was not quite aligned and you were able to help me both recognize that and change some of those pretty quickly. And from working with you I would describe it. I don't know that this is accurate, but I would describe working with you is sort of like a physical therapist crossed with a body therapist crossed with a fitness instructor or maybe not even crossed with a fitness tractor like that almost doesn't enter into most of our sessions, because it's just how do you want to live? Rebecca? Oh, this is how I want to live. Okay, let's make that better. Very simple or easy.

Jamien Rose 15:13
Yeah. My, my main lens, and what I had gone to that graduate program for was for occupational therapy, and psycho myself as somatic OT. And the best description I ever heard for occupational therapy. It's incredibly broad. But it's helping anyone, anywhere, through creativity and scientific knowledge to become more engaged in life.

Rebecca Beltran: 15:40
Oh, my God, that is so cool. And I feel like occupational therapy, the occupation tricks me, and always makes me feel like there's got to do something with work.

Jamien Rose 15:51
Totally. It's, you know, it was founded back in the round World War one time. So it's a really old use of the word, and the Meet the meaning and occupational therapy that confuses everyone, almost everyone thinks it's job related. But what they're talking about is occupation is anything that occupies your time. So occupational therapy is super broad, because, you know, and different occupational therapists have skills to help with different areas, some do help, specifically with work. But it's the gamut is huge, it's anything that occupies your time. And what I tend to help people with is, sometimes you could call it higher level, occupations of the things that bring them meaning, you know, so maybe your life is going, okay, maybe you have this issue, but you can kind of do your life, but you want more. And so that's what I like to help people with is to help with with that more is, and because of my particular trainings, I'm, I was a movement teacher for about 20 years before becoming an OT, and have done bodywork trainings. And so I tend to focus on helping to kind of optimize the physical structure to help balance the nervous system, we talk about what could be meaningful, what could be more for you. And just to try to help make it more possible for you to have more of what's meaningful for you. I love it. That is,

Rebecca Beltran: 17:20
that is such a different way of thinking about that word, occupation. I'm glad you explained that because I don't know, it still might not stick in my head enough for me to remember. occupation is not just about work and your job. So I know in our sessions, I've had some interesting experiences where you'll be touching a part of my body, and then asking me what's coming up, and I'll be talking about whatever is present in my life, and then something will release or change or shift or we'll get some kind of insight or wisdom from a sticky point somewhere. And then. So I have experienced that with you. But I'm wondering, does everybody experienced things like that? Is that how it normally works?

Jamien Rose 18:03
That's a great question. I'm so glad you've experienced that. That makes me really happy. I wish I had the science in front of me. I'm not great at recalling it but I have read things about like neuro peptides of emotions being held throughout the body, the vagus nerve, running down from the brain to the gut, that there is this literal emotional connection throughout the body, the fascia being very directly connected to the nervous system, the fashion meaning the the connective tissue that surrounds all of our muscles and organs. And it's also like kind of like coats underneath our skin, throughout our body, very important organ in our body, and directly connected to our nervous system. Meaning if we're stressed for when fight flight freeze, our fascia will literally tense up more, which you can feel sometimes when you get like tension legs, shoulders, or, or something like that. And so be able to address what we're feeling and what we're thinking what images come up. While we're in the specific part of the body, that we're working to address, maybe a more literal, physical issue. It just takes the work much further than if we just kind of lay there and say Do something to me massage therapists or something.

Rebecca Beltran: 19:29
Data makes me doubt it.

Jamien Rose 19:35
So it just makes the work much more full. And I will say that this work is very distinct from psychotherapy. We don't usually go unless you know a client might start talking about their past but that's not the purpose. The purpose is to have the direct somatic the body experience. And notice what comes up for us in the body experience so it deepens our inbox. argument our sense of being in our whole self. And as an OT, one of the reasons I chose that profession is that mental health and physical health are in the scope of practice. But they're in the scope of practice in the context of helping us engage more in the meaningful occupations in our life. So that's how I'm using that. So not psychotherapy, a lot of my clients also do psychotherapy. But this can help us integrate into ourselves on that physical, emotional, nervous system level. I don't think I answered your question yet, though.

Rebecca Beltran: 20:38
That's okay. You can have time to keep answering things.

Jamien Rose 20:44
But your question, I think it was about if that's what everybody experiences, everybody kind of comes in where they come in, and I just try to meet them where they're at. So some people come in, and they're very much like I have this physical thing, I just really need help with this physical thing. And they're not necessarily interested in or wanting to go into more of those curiosity questions about the rest of themselves. Other people come in, primarily because they're in more of a stress state, or are they just stressed about something and they're, they're kind of feel off in their whole body because of this. And so that becomes kind of trying to integrate becomes more of the focus. And then there's a lot of people who are kind of in between where they might come in for physical, but they're really curious and open to exploring how everything can can integrate more. Yeah, so I basically, all of those tools are available for people. But I also really value meeting people where they're at. And I don't put my agenda on them. I just kind of introduced the possibilities and see what, what they want to

Rebecca Beltran: 21:57
do. That's powerful, self directed healing. Yeah. So you've mentioned things about your nervous system a few times already. And I have friends with autistic children, and I have a lot of people in the tech industry that I spend time with. But I don't really know what nervous system is all about. I hear it talked about all that. But I don't really know what it's about. So when you talk about something that's calming your nervous system down, or that's helping you get through something, what does that mean?

Jamien Rose 22:28
That's such a great question, Rebecca. And I'm realizing they haven't really answered that very much. Because I've been in a world where people are just like, Oh, of course, like, but it's not. And, of course, if you don't know if you've not talked about it, know about it? Um,

Rebecca Beltran: 22:44
yeah, I think that's why I don't know what it means because it gets thrown around. And everyone's like, Oh, we all know, like, well, kind of, but do I?

Jamien Rose 22:52
It's a great, Yes, true. And I realize I think I don't have off the top of my head, a lot of great words about it. But I have one thing that I'll say that I don't have a ton of great words about it makes me think I should write something about it. Because I am not able to like, pull off all the things I've read about it. But one of the things that the thing that comes to me that that might be useful for people to hear is that it's kind of like, the way I'm talking about nervous system a lot is when we get into this fight, flight freeze kind of state, where we kind of go on an automatic thing, it's almost like we're overtaken a little bit where sometimes people will call it dysregulated in our nervous system, when we're in those states. And that's kind of the limbic system of the brain taking over, and it takes over, because we're still mammals, as much as we have developed, all these things, were still animal bodies, you know. And so I usually think of when there's kind of an issue in the nervous system, that kind of state taking over or chronic stress, and we just can't quite let down, like we can't quite relax in ourselves. And so when I think of doing using tools to help, like calm the nervous system, or regulate the nervous system, it's a lot about creating more choice and adaptability, choice and how we behave, how we interact with other people. Just being able to come out of that sort of hijack state of I am in fight, or I am in freeze, I need to flee. You know, and sometimes it will feel that loud. Sometimes it's just that chronic level of that, where we just feeling not at ease. That feeling not at ease, can often mean that your nervous systems overly revved up. And so we have tools to help kind of relax, fight Literally through the nervous system, so that you have more choice.

Rebecca Beltran: 25:05
I like that I like framing it as having more choice and adaptability. Because at first when you're talking about calm down your nervous system, it was reminding me of my mom saying, Oh, you kids need to calm down. And I'm like, wait a minute. That's not the point of this. It's not a I'm not supposed to be hyper. It's when I'm not feeling easeful

Jamien Rose 25:26
I can address. Yes. So well. stated. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's like, all of these dates, like being really in our head, or being in a fight, flight, freeze, those are all great things that we can do. And we need them at times. It's more like when we get stuck in a over revved nervous system where we get stuck in our head. That's when the issues happen. Because we don't have as much adaptability, we don't have as much choice. They don't have as much freedom. And when we talk about, like partnership with other people, it affects how other people relate to us, because we're all mammals, we're all feeding off of each other, what we're sensing what's happening, and it affects how we interact.

Rebecca Beltran: 26:14
Okay, Jamie, and one of the ways that I have learned about nervous systems and how important they can be, is the friends that I have that have kids that have some kind of nervous system problems, they need extra attention in school, or they need extra heavy blankets for being able to keep calm or something like that. The work that you're doing, it sounds like you're focusing more on adults than on children. And as we're sealing ourselves and our nervous system, I'm sure that there's a lot of need for as an adult who might be having a nervous system problem or some sort of a nervous breakdown. That's, that may not be the right word for as an adult who's having some complications with my nervous system and wanting to have more ease and more choice in my life. Are there things that I can do to help my like, my little inner child feel more comfortable and more safe, and still maintain my current caring adult status?

Jamien Rose 27:22
That's a wonderful question. Because, yeah, we do have to maintain our card carrying adult status, and keep moving on no matter what's going on. Yeah. But one of the things that has helped me the most, and I help guide people in this direction is kind of noticing, sort of, you might start by noticing where you feel an agitation in your body, and I can share for me, I'm not used to talking a lot about my work. So this is edgy for my nervous system. And I feel a little flutter. Kind of, in my chest, a little below my heart. Like when I just kind of almost take a little mental scan of my body. I also want to say, as we're talking about all this stuff of embodiment, if you have a lot of trauma history, sometimes going into the body can be an unsafe feeling experience. So if you have that, you know, please seek out a professional before you would do the kinds of things I'm talking about right now. But what I'm noticing, and in a session, I might help a person feel in themselves, I'm noticing a little flutter under my heart. And I just feel this little tingle, this little fluttering sensation. I'm just letting myself kind of breathe into that feeling. And with as much kindness and kind of keeping that adult me here, almost like I'm parenting my, my inner self. I'm just sort of letting it know that I'm here with it. And just seeing if with that flutter sensation with that part of myself and just seeing if it has anything that wants me to know if it needs anything from me. If there's like a certain movement, if there's like, if I push on it does that help? Kind of giving, just almost like it's a little child that I adore, and I'm just taking care of you know, the bigger grown up self has the capacity to just be with that little part that feels fluttery that feels a little something going on. And a lot of it is just giving it time and our full attention. So it feels seeing and I can feel myself when I do that it actually starts to calm down. Now I've practiced these techniques for many, many years. So I can do that in myself in the moment. If you can't, if I'm saying this and you're like, ah, that's too much. I'm not going there or I don't feel anything or whatever. I don't know what she's talking About, that's really cool. If you have any curiosity about it, seek out someone who can help you go there, the type of work guides do, or going to a psychotherapist, if you have a lot of trauma, or sometimes even people who are somatic psychotherapist who have a little more body orientation in the psychotherapy work. Coming to my work is more hands on work with movement and body work and looking at these things, listening to yourself and seeking out a little help, if that feels hard to do. And if it feels doable, then starting to use that kind of tool for yourself, you know, just take it with you as a hearty favorite from this show today.

Rebecca Beltran: 30:39
I love it. Well, Jamie, and it was such a pleasure to have you on the show. I look forward to having you back again someday. And we can talk more about our nervous systems and how we can give them to naps and keep ourselves in great shape, but also with ease and adaptability.

Jamien Rose 30:55
Thank you so much for that guy, I really appreciate the opportunity to try to put into words, some of these things that are very nonverbal experiences. And yet in order for people to even know that these are possibilities and that you can be have a more full sense of yourself by being in these less verbal parts of yourself. We have to put words to them. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

Rebecca Beltran: 31:24
You're welcome. Would you like to tell people how they can find you and get a hold of you?

Jamien Rose 31:28
Yeah, thank you. So I have a website is www dot J. Mian. Let's J A M, i e, n, rows are osv.com. And you can find out more and reach me through that.

Rebecca Beltran: 31:47
Fantastic J man, thank you so much. Hey there pleasure seeker. Well, that's it for today's conversation. Here at pleasure central radio. We love using Conscious Communication, science, geekery and copious amounts of true pleasure to improve our partnerships, our money and our love lives. And we hope you do too. If you loved what you heard here, we'd love a review. You can do this easily on podcast players like Spotify and Apple podcasts. It only takes a couple of seconds. And it's an easy way to help more people discover the show without you having to actually bring it up with them. To hear other episodes of the podcast and get notified immediately when a new episode is released. Follow me on your favorite podcast player, find out more and get in touch at pleasure Central radio.com. Your thought to ponder today is

Jamien Rose 32:38
there's nothing wrong with being head focused, like we need our beautiful brains and we can have so much more. So there's no shame in having this powerful being really in your head. And I think the joy of it too is that if you have that ability, it's not like you lose it as you become more aware of your body.