[00:00:30] Rebecca: Hey you, thanks for tuning in just a quick heads up. This episode is rated X, which means there is a lot of explicit talk about sexuality, sex, sex, and other adult topics. This is definitely not safe for work. You might even end up hearing some sex happening. Use your best judgment on this one.

[00:00:55] One of the things that I love about orgies is. easy. It is to see how many different flavors of people there are and flavors of relationship styles, and, you know, flavors of getting your needs met and flavors of having a thrilling, fulfilling, exciting life. I had the opportunity to attend this really interesting.

[00:01:24] I'm calling it an orgy, but really it was a group of friends. A lot of whom are poly and somebody was having a birthday or something I think, and that person wanted to bring their partners and those people wanted to bring their partners. And when you have a really lovely, generous, open friend group of poly people, the people that are connected to other people can make quite a large group.

[00:01:56] I love that most of the poly people I know are so creative and thoughtful and when something like Valentine's day happens and everybody has a couple of partners that they wanna spend time with on Valentine's day and all of those partners have other partners. And how do you get everybody together? How do you decide who you're gonna spend time with?

[00:02:18] All of them is the answer that some of my friends have decided. And, uh, yeah, I happen to be seeing somebody in that group. And so I got invited to this big, beautiful, lovely poly people weekend, which was, you know, basically an orgy really when it comes down to it, just because there were so many people that were playing with other people and there was a lot of openness and.

[00:02:46] It was a big house that we were able to share and to adjust, to suit our needs so that we were able to have like a dance party one evening. And, and I call this episode lessons from an orgy because there just, there was so much openness and sexuality going on. It was a beautifully planned event.

[00:03:11] Apparently it's been happening for years and just gets more efficient and the logistics get easier for everybody every time. And there was some really brilliant things, like not everybody knew everybody to begin with. And so the organizers decided wouldn't it be lovely if we had some time to introduce ourselves to each other and kind of get to know each other before we're in this interesting.

[00:03:42] Orgy situation with a bunch of people, some of whom will be strangers and some of them whom will not, will not. So what's a creative way to fix that. How about we have a small series of get togethers on the weekend before this was such a creative group. I remember at one of the earlier brunches, we were asked if we wanted to do any kind of art projects during this weekend.

[00:04:12] And I realized I could do some audio recording. And I asked if people would be interested in sharing. And I got a handful of people that were very generous in offering their time and sharing their answers with me. So here is this episode lessons from an orgy. I end up speaking with, I think, four different groups of people, five people overall.
[00:04:39] There's a woman named rose that shared about what she thinks of her wedding ring and how she deals with it and how she tracks STI safety. Uh, there's a man who goes by the alias of Mr. Sailor moon, who has some very explicit and interesting fantasies that he shares. And he talks about the emotional and the physical risks that he was considering when he decided to fulfill that fantasy.

[00:05:15] Uh, there's a man named Roger. Who shares about how often he feels like he's communicated everything he needs to, to his P partners and how often he finds out that he was wrong and what he does about it. And then there's a couple who has been together for a very long time, uh, Rita and Antonio, and they've been living the poly lifestyle for a good chunk of that, and they share some of their journey together and how they've navigated having new relationships come in and are we new relationship, energy, and how they have learned to stay dedicated and committed to each other?

[00:05:58] When we recorded these episodes, we were actually in one of the closets of one of the rooms in the big house and snuggled up in between, on the floor of the closet. With a wood paneling behind us and not a very solid door in front of us. It's not a very soundproof studio. And I think you'll hear towards the end, as the party starts to ramp up and we end up finishing the interview so we can go and do something else fun and creative.
[00:06:34] I hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:06:40] So rose, how do you describe your relationship status to other people?

[00:06:47] Rose: I generally say that I am poly or in an open relationship, although that has sort of changed because I used to consider myself to have a primary and that has sort of shifted in the last year to being more of a, like, I am my own primary and I have.
[00:07:12] Other partners. Yeah, I guess that's how I would describe my relationship status.

[00:07:19] Rebecca: How do you assess risk so that you feel comfortable engaging in playing with multiple partners safely?

[00:07:25] Rose: So the way I have it set up now is I keep a health history, a sexual health history card, which has my testing history, all of my partners, testing histories, and any notes that I feel are relevant to providing to a new sexual partner.
[00:07:53] And it's kind of fun because I can, I can be like, Hey, do you wanna be on my card? You know, like you can, you can sort of, it's sort of like a calling
[00:08:03] Rebecca: card. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm . A very sexy going card. You wanna trade cards?
[00:08:10] Rose: and I get tested at least once a year, either if a partner's sexual risk history has changed or if my status is about to change.
[00:08:24] And I, I don't, I just rely on my partner's words. I've never asked to actually see any tests. That's how I choose
[00:08:36] Rebecca: to work. I, if you can't trust someone that you're having sex with, that's a big bummer. Could you be having sex with them? Right.
[00:08:43] Rose: Right. And I haven't run into that yet. Uh, I realize that's a risk and I'm taking it.
[00:08:49] I use barriers with my. Penis, having partners who are not the person I'm married
[00:08:59] Rebecca: to, I don't use
[00:09:02] Rose: barriers for oral sex. It's another risk that I choose to
[00:09:06] Rebecca: take. I take the same risk. Mm-hmm I think it's pretty common. Yeah. For me, it's worth it. Yeah. That's cool. Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing this with us.
[00:09:17] Here's the next question. And I saw you smile a second ago. When I asked you this before, what is your best memory of a sexual experience that happened without a cock inside of a Posey? And how did you end up there?
[00:09:33] Rose: So I have a lot of them. I have many of those memories. The one that jumped to my mind was one time.
[00:09:45] I was at the house of two of my partners who are also partnered. They are, they have a kid together. And I was there with my family as well with my husband and my kids. And we were
[00:10:00] Rebecca: all just, you
[00:10:03] Rose: know, spending time at their house. And after the kids were in bed, we were hanging out in the kitchen, the four
[00:10:12] Rebecca: parents.
[00:10:14] Rose: And I don't remember who instigated. but at one point someone said, let's just focus on rows. let's just have a like, oh, I know what it was. We were talking about threesomes. And I was like, eh, threesomes are kind of hard cuz you know, one person often gets left out and they were like, but what if maybe you just get all the focus on you?
[00:10:39] I was like, okay, I'll try that. Sure. and so I was laying on the bed and one of my partners was going down on me and one of my partners had his cock in my mouth from behind like, like I was looking up and he was behind me and it was, um, it was amazing. It felt like all of the attention toward Pleasure was on me.
[00:11:06] Like I got to direct what was going on
[00:11:09] Rebecca: and I felt like that sounds so lovely. And I can see you almost blushing. Yeah. As the memory. Yeah,
[00:11:17] Rose: though, I blush very readily. Like if someone needs blushing for, I
[00:11:22] Rebecca: will do it for them. that's wonderful. I like to make people blush and I like to make them think so.
[00:11:32] Rose: Well, you've, you've done both.
[00:11:35] Rebecca: I appreciate it. Good. so you told me earlier that you know where a wedding ring and that there's a specific reason. Why would you please share?
[00:11:44] Rose: Sure. So I got married pretty young and I did have a wedding ring and on our 10 anniversary, we chose to melt our rings together.
[00:11:56] For me personally, it was largely about taking back ownership of saying yes or no to people not relying on. Being owned by a man to keep me safe, being able to use my no, because I don't want someone's attention or being able to say yes. And being as honest as possible about either of those, the yes or the no,
[00:12:32] Rebecca: that's really lovely.
[00:12:33] I find that that's been a theme in my own life too, is figuring out when and how to say no. And then figuring out when I want to say yes. Yeah. And how, yeah. It can be tricky. Was there something particularly helpful that was a pivotal point for you in that journey?
[00:12:54] Rose: I think it was just a slow process of sort of unfolding and realizing after many, many years of having people make assumptions about me. Based on either that I was wearing a ring or whatever cues they get, either that I was available and wanted attention or that I was already taken and belonged to someone.
[00:13:27] And that's just never how it has been between me and my
[00:13:31] Rebecca: partner. So they're recognizing how misunderstood you were being in the world was a catalyst. Yeah.
[00:13:38] Rose: Yeah, I guess so. And wanting, wanting to be able to do that work through communication rather than having my ring be a signal, because I feel like the wedding ring often means something very different to people who are not familiar with open relationships or polyamorous relationships.
[00:14:05] Rebecca: Yeah, I think you're right. Especially in our society, most people have a certain assumption about what that means. Right. And for a long time,
[00:14:12] Rose: I actually used that to blend in. Yeah. And I kind of have just decided not to
[00:14:19] Rebecca: blend in to be yourself. Yeah. Nice. I don't think you could really blend in anywhere I don't any of us really could.
[00:14:28] No, and that's not the point, right? No. Awesome. No. Well thank you for sharing Rick.
[00:14:33] Rose: Yes. Yeah.
[00:14:45] "Mr. Sailor Moon": This
[00:14:45] Rebecca: is
[00:14:45] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Rebecca. This is Mr. Sailor moon.
[00:14:48] Rebecca: Nice. Hello, Mr. Sailor moon. .
[00:14:51] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Hello, Rebecca. How are you?
[00:14:53] Rebecca: I am really good. I'm having a great weekend.
[00:14:56] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Yeah, me too.
[00:14:59] Rebecca: So, thank you so much for being a part of my data collection project. I have a couple of questions that I wanna ask you. Okay. So the first one is how do you describe your relationship style to other people
[00:15:13] "Mr. Sailor Moon": that's evolving, but I think non-hierarchical polyamory or non-hierarchical non-monogamy is generally how I describe it.
[00:15:24] Yeah. Cool.
[00:15:26] Rebecca: That sounds easy, right?
[00:15:28] "Mr. Sailor Moon": definitely not easy takes work, but like worth it. Fun. Awesome. Yeah. Very much so.
[00:15:36] Rebecca: Do you have a favorite memory of what has made it worth it for you having multiple
[00:15:40] "Mr. Sailor Moon": partners and really stretching with all of them to like grow and explore the like full depth of who we are as complicated people?
[00:15:54] I think for me has just made me more aware of everything that I like want to be and of pushing to like, just explore more. It's really, really nice to not feel like you have to be everything for a person, but that everything is in some ways possible.
[00:16:23] Rebecca: That sounds pretty incredible. What is your best memory of a sexual experience that happened without a cock inside of a pussy.
[00:16:33] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Oh, and how did you get there? I mean, so many of them
[00:16:39] Rebecca: all right. I'll take two or three. That's fine.
[00:16:42] "Mr. Sailor Moon": well, I was actually just thinking about the board outside, which has the like sex act data collection about, and we were having a little debate about like what actually defines a sex act because so many people define it as like penetrative sex or even more limiting, like just penis and vagina sex.
[00:17:00] And it's like, sex is so much more than that. I think for me, a lot of my favorite sex act like at this event, not this year, but like five or six years ago, one of my most like indelible memories as someone who. Identifies as being into age play. I had been a daddy to a lot of people before and been, been a big in age play relationships for a long time.
[00:17:32] And I had never actually allowed myself to like, be little and feel little with someone. And so I had an experience with a person who's here of just being held and stroked and like being very small and being very vulnerable and like fearful of everything around and at the same time feeling incredibly safe, that was just about being held.
[00:18:03] Wow. And so like that, that was amazing then like also there's sex acts that do involve penetration and that can be like, So deeply intimate or just like, so deliciously fun. So like the deliciously fun is I just came in from sucking a friend's cock that we had negotiated a couple weeks ago because I just like, love sucking cock.
[00:18:35] Like, it's great to have like, ah, it's super fun. And I was like, I just want you to spray come all over my mouth all over my face. Let's do this. And he's like, yes, totally game. Let's do this. And that's like just having friends who are willing to be playful and like being honest about what you want.
[00:18:57] Rebecca: That must be very freeing.
[00:18:58] Yeah. have you always been able to be that free sexually? No,
[00:19:03] "Mr. Sailor Moon": not at all. so much. No. I think I spent most of, most of my teens feeling incredibly awkward, like not even dating, like being afraid to talk about anything that I wanted. And most of my twenties being very performative and feeling like I had to be following a certain script and anything that I wanted outside of that script was impossible.
[00:19:28] And then most of the last 10 years figuring out how to actually talk about what I want and getting to know people that I can actually do that kind of honest communication with and just be like, what do you want, what do I want? Like, let's, let's do this. Let's make these things happen because it's possible.
[00:19:53] And like, What we want is not the script. And that is not bad.
[00:20:01] Rebecca: I like that. What we want is not the script and that is not bad. I grew up on the ethical sled, which is sex is fun and Pleasure is good for you. Yeah.
[00:20:10] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Yeah. Sex is really fun. playing games is a fun thing and sex. Like it, it's a game. It's a real, like a really big, messy game, but like it's a game.
[00:20:25] Rebecca: How do you assess risk for that kind of game?
[00:20:30] "Mr. Sailor Moon": I think that there's risk on a few different levels. So there's the like sexual health conversation, which. Is mostly just being really educated about like, trying to be as educated as possible about what is out there and what like real risks to sexual health are and getting tested regularly, having partners who are tested regularly, being aware of like what barriers are effective for what things and what precautions are effective.
[00:21:05] And then assessing like what level of risk in like this scene that just happened. My friend wanted to have a condom on, because he like outside of his primary partner, he doesn't have any non barrier. Sex oral or vaginal or anal for me, it would've been fine to not have a barrier for oral, but I'm like, okay, we will go with the higher level of precaution here.
[00:21:34] But if we had been doing like anal sex, I would've been like barrier. Absolutely. Like no deal otherwise. And so those are, that's like one level of negotiation. And then there's, I think within, especially getting into like impact play and BDSM. A level of risk assessment and safety around the immediate physical health of a body of like, let's make sure that things are happening in a way where they're not going to permanently injure someone's body.
[00:22:13] And sometimes that's hard to assess like friends who are really into needles or cutting. That's walking right up to this line of like, is this safe for a human body physically? And then there's an emotional safety. And that is, I think really the much more complicated one than the other two, because the other two, I don't know, they seem more cut and dry about levels of risk awareness and how to communicate.
[00:22:46] And I think when we're digging into. Emotions and expectations that requires a whole nother level of conversation and really like ongoing connection and willingness to communicate before, during, and after playing and connecting to make sure that like, feelings are, are not being hurt in ways that cause damage.
[00:23:15] Rebecca: That's really interesting that you're thinking about it that way and I'm kind of new. Playing with large groups of people mm-hmm and having not seen how that can look. I think it's always very interesting to watch other people sort of model the potential for how to address that. Especially the emotional risk.
[00:23:37] Is there a template or somewhere that you generally approach that
[00:23:43] "Mr. Sailor Moon": I wish I had a good template for that aside from just talking and checking in and asking people like really checking in, how are you feeling? How are you doing? How is this for you? Was that okay? Yeah. The, the like, will it be okay? Is it okay?
[00:24:00] Was that okay? Like let's check in before let's check in during let's check in after.
[00:24:06] Rebecca: Nice. And if it wasn't okay. How would you say that? If you're, if you're the person
[00:24:10] "Mr. Sailor Moon": receiving and, and the wasn't okay. Is so hard to. Say as someone who just got hurt or so hard to receive as someone who like did hurting.
[00:24:23] And that, that is like, okay, we, what needs to happen to repair this? How do we make this better?
[00:24:33] Rebecca: So it sounds like it going slow and checking in very often is maybe a good way to minimize that fallout.
[00:24:44] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Yeah. And I think the going slow, and this is, it's a funny thing that I run into at some parties. There's a couple parties that I've, that I go to that have a larger draw of people from around the country and are like larger than the one we're at right now where there's less geographic and historic closeness between a lot of people.
[00:25:12] And. One thing that people coming into that kind of get into trouble with sometimes, or like, feel bad about is someone will come in who's new and see like scenes happening. And they're like, and they're thinking, oh my God, why can't I do this? Do people not like me? Like something must be wrong with me.
[00:25:38] And in fact, no, no, no, no. It's like, you are new here. And you're watching people who may. Started to get to know each other, like four parties ago and maybe had a negotiation about what they're actually doing like six months ago and have all of this time. And all of these conversations, not even directly about playing together sexually, but just building up a level of trust and a level of friendship and a level of intimacy that allow for that ease in this environment.
[00:26:18] And there's no replacing just like actual time, like spent with a person to make that ease happen. And it, it's not that you're awkward and it's not that no one likes you. It's just that you're new. And so just be here and let people get to know you and then like, it gets easier. .
[00:26:39] Rebecca: that's great advice. Just be here and let people get to know you.
[00:26:43] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Yeah. I think I heard that actually as like, like Dan Savage's podcast talking about like the best way to approach a play party, the first time is to expect that you will do nothing to just be like a complete, just hang out, like go and go and hang out in the kitchen or like on the edge of the room and don't feel bad about it, but just like have conversations, see what's going on, like feel the, like energy of the situation, because you just have to go slowly
[00:27:16] Rebecca: and no one else can do that for
[00:27:17] "Mr. Sailor Moon": you, right?
[00:27:19] Yeah. And there's, there's like no short cutting it. Well, there is, you can try and that winds up with people getting hurt. A lot of times the like trying to like leap frog over actually having established trust.
[00:27:36] Rebecca: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Salem moon. . I really appreciated the intimacy that you shared, Rebecca.
[00:27:42] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Thank you very much. It's been really good talking. Thanks.
[00:27:49] Rebecca: Welcome, Roger. Thank you, Rebecca. Welcome into the closet. This is, this is great. so I really appreciate your willingness to come in here and share and be intimate and be a model of poly sort of . So the first question that I've been asking everybody is how do you describe your relationship style to other people?
[00:28:16] Roger: Huh? How do I describe it? Well, I think I found that my relationships with people are fairly unique. One to the other. There may be ways in which they look similar. Like for example, I might have sex with more than one person, but the thing we call sex just doesn't feel like the same thing to me, my experience with one person is its own thing.
[00:28:43] And so, yeah, technically I might be having sex with two people, but I'm not having the same thing with those two people at all. So that's the thing I most notice about it that each in each relationship has its own existence, its own entity. I really like that element. I like to fall into the subtle and not so subtle differences because it always has felt like there's more to explore.
[00:29:19] The more I look there's a fractal quality. I use that word a lot, but that's particularly, um, when I'm. Experiencing a new sensation and it could be a new sensation as in I've met a new person and I'm interacting with him for the first time, or it could be a new sensation, like, well, we've done this for 10 or 12 years now, but we're starting it again.
[00:29:47] And this is new just a few minutes ago, we weren't doing this. So the novelty comes back in feeling that same old sensation again in this moment and waiting a little bit longer to see what that sensation is gonna do. Next is something that I really enjoy and that's been pretty rewarding. This just seems like there's more all the time.
[00:30:19] As, as a result of this, I don't move very fast in relationships. It takes me a long time to get. Down the standard progression by which, I mean the, well we've only just held hands. Oh, well now we've kissed. Well, now we've gone significantly further than that, but we haven't gone all the way that, that standard script.
[00:30:45] Well, yeah, I, I take a long time to make it all the way down that script, because there's just so much to explore at each, at each boundary. Well, it doesn't always take that long, but
[00:30:58] Rebecca: right. Yeah. Every relationship is different. Right. Uhhuh. So it sounds like you're quite a nonconformist I'll bet. That would be difficult to describe yourself in average society.
[00:31:10] Yeah. I don't have
[00:31:11] Rita: a lot of luck with that.
[00:31:13] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Uh
[00:31:15] Rebecca: do people just give you funny stares when you try and explain, or
[00:31:20] "Mr. Sailor Moon": I guess so. I
[00:31:21] Rita: mean, and I don't
[00:31:23] Roger: really expect. People to get it quite. I, I, I didn't get it, even though I was doing it. I didn't have the words for it. I think I've just begun to realize what's going on here and what I like about it, that's kind of a new development.
[00:31:42] Rebecca: Well, what do you like about it?
[00:31:45] Roger: I like the sense of freedom, I guess that comes from realizing that between any two moments is another moment that can be experienced. Uh, just slowing way down. Has opened up a lot of possibility for me. And I just like that a lot.
[00:32:10] Rebecca: Sounds like a lot of enlightenment now here now.
[00:32:14] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Yeah. It's kind
[00:32:15] Rita: of
[00:32:15] Roger: got that whole mindfulness or
[00:32:18] "Mr. Sailor Moon": around it. Yeah.
[00:32:20] Rebecca: Hm. Are you a
[00:32:21] "Mr. Sailor Moon": meditator?
[00:32:22] Roger: I never was any good at, um, masturbator. that's a form of meditation that I am quite good at and spent a lot of time in that space.
[00:32:31] Rebecca: It's funny. I actually, I was doing a short video for some friends recently and I said, okay, I'm gonna get off now and I'm gonna go.
[00:32:42] And, and then I did not say masturbate, even though that's what I was planning on doing. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, no, I'm gonna, I'm actually gonna go masturbate. And this is why I
[00:32:51] Roger: didn't think I was gonna say it just now.
[00:32:58] Rebecca: Are there any mishaps or poor judgment calls that you're willing to share. And how did that make you a better partner going forward?
[00:33:08] Roger: Not that I can share specifically, I'm not coming up with anything that isn't sort of delicate, but in general, I think where I fall down is on assuming I've been heard in, when I'm communicating about, say a new part or a new activity or something along those lines, I try to be as transparent as I can as early as I can.
[00:33:37] And I often think I've done that, but, uh, it turns out later I wasn't as successful as I thought. And I'm sometimes a little alarming how surprised I am when the same thing happens over and over. Over many years. You'd think I'd
[00:33:58] "Mr. Sailor Moon": learn
[00:34:01] Roger: but I'm sure
[00:34:02] "Mr. Sailor Moon": I'm learning.
[00:34:04] Rebecca: You must be because I've seen you as some of your partners and it seems like there's a lot of cohesion and a lot of connection there.
[00:34:10] Roger: Yeah. Yeah. Things have been going spectacularly well for the past hun of years. And it, I guess I did get there honest there there's. There was a lot of, um, work put in
[00:34:28] "Mr. Sailor Moon": to get to here, I guess.
[00:34:30] Rebecca: So would it be fair to say that some of those experiences that have happened years ago gave you more insight into what you needed to say and how early and when.
[00:34:42] Roger: Certainly. Yeah. And I guess the other thing is to have to have a lot of forgiveness for myself. I've learned to do that because if anything, I've learned it's that I'm not gonna get this right. Totally. And that there's no sign I'm gonna ever get it. Perfect. So giving myself less of a hard time about mistakes has been something I've learned, that's helped a
[00:35:08] Rebecca: lot.
[00:35:09] Have your partners figured out how to do that with you to give you less of a hard time about your mistakes and, and themselves too. I'm sure. It's not just one way. Yeah, I
[00:35:17] Roger: think so. Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's a team effort. There's no, there's, there's, uh, there, everybody's got their own issues to work with, but it's not silos where we spend all that time, just in our own pit digging away.
[00:35:34] "Mr. Sailor Moon": It's a big shared effort. Yeah.
[00:35:36] Roger: And that's, that's the thing I'm probably the most grateful for is that I've found myself or found people to bring into my life who are really able and willing and want to do that kind of work together.
[00:35:53] "Mr. Sailor Moon": That's beautiful. Yeah. It's pretty neat. You're a lucky man. I, yep.
[00:35:59] Roger: I'm right up there.
[00:36:02] Rebecca: That's often how I feel. Very, very lucky person. Mm-hmm . well, then this is a very juicy question. Juicy question. What is your best memory of a sexual experience that happened without a cook inside of a pussy?
[00:36:18] Roger: Yeah, this is a tough one because there are way too many to choose
[00:36:23] Rebecca: from. I'll take two or three, two or three yeah.
[00:36:25] However many
[00:36:26] Roger: you wanna share. Let me see. Ah, the highlights. Um, I think I'm gonna not let it be a race because there's too many and, and I wouldn't be able to really rank them well. Alright. Alright. Here's a problem. Some of my favorite moments have been, have involved experiencing my partners, having Pleasure with someone else.
[00:36:51] Yeah. In a lot of those cases, the rule, the rule would, uh, disqualify these, these, these events. But I wasn't the one whose cock was involved. Um, but then I'll, I'll discount those.
[00:37:03] Rebecca: I like watching you filter through, be like, okay, well this cannot count. Yeah. What else
[00:37:08] "Mr. Sailor Moon": would work?
[00:37:09] Roger: Hmm, well, I'm a humongous fan of sensual touch.
[00:37:16] And the traditional sensual massage experience is, is, um, it's really been transformative for me ever since I discovered there was such a thing is just relaxing as totally as possible. And letting somebody else drive your experience by placing their hands on your skin, experiencing that a bunch of different specific occasions come into my head and, um, truly epic.
[00:37:50] To have somebody else's focus on you and it doesn't feel like you're just receiving, it feels like you're part of a dance performance almost because there's so much give and take in your reactions to touch. And that person who's really listening is getting a lot out of the experience as well. I always wanted to learn to do it as well as it's been done for me.
[00:38:18] And I'm, I'm, I've just not got the, I don't feel like I can, I can, uh, reproduce that experience. I can Descript. I can talk about it. People don't know what I'm talking about, but I can, yeah, I can visualize it. But man, it's like watching a, a musical performance of like an orchestra or something you just like, I wish I could make some of those sounds happen.
[00:38:42] Rebecca: I know what you're talking about. Yeah. It's interesting that you describe it as relaxing completely and letting somebody else's hands drive your experience. And also that it's not a purely receptive thing that it's a dance, there's a lot of your reactions and your response. Mm-hmm
[00:38:59] "Mr. Sailor Moon": that? Yeah. Inform, I guess that is, is
[00:39:05] Roger: that might be the core experience that I get out of almost all of the stuff in the sexual neurotic realm is the, the, the, the conversation.
[00:39:18] I mean, I can get that conversation can happen in just the touch of one, one person's hand against another and, you know, saying hello. Yeah. Sometimes there's a subtext to that.
[00:39:35] "Mr. Sailor Moon": There's
[00:39:37] Roger: sometimes a deeper connection. It's kind of laughable almost, but it's there and. That's what I enjoy the most, I think is finding that little bit of
[00:39:50] Rebecca: conversation, even when sometimes the conversation is physical and not verbal.
[00:39:55] "Mr. Sailor Moon": Yeah.
[00:39:56] Roger: Particularly when it's nonverbal. I mean, I like verbalizing. I enjoy talking about things, uh, narrating that whole, I don't know if it's a guideline or what, but in, in kink scenes, for example, the, the book says you should tell someone what you're gonna do with them to tell them what you're doing with them while you're doing it.
[00:40:19] And then tell them what you just did with them. Just it's, you know, bring up the, uh, drama one notch.
[00:40:27] Rita: Yeah.
[00:40:28] Rebecca: That's funny. That sounds like Toastmaster. Perfect. Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em. Uhhuh. Tell 'em what you need to tell 'em and then tell 'em what you had told them. Mm-hmm . Who would've thought.
[00:40:41] Well, thank you so much, Roger, for joining me here in my tiny closet.
[00:40:45] Rita: Thank you for pulling me into the
[00:40:46] Rebecca: closet. I'll let you out now, if you like. Okay. thank you.
[00:40:55] Hey, Antonio and Rita. It's nice to have you here in the closet.
[00:40:59] Rita: it's nice to thank you here.
[00:41:01] Rebecca: Delighted. So thank you so much for coming in here and being willing to be an example of a long-term poly couple. Yeah. Would you tell me a little bit about how long you've been together?
[00:41:15] Rita: This weekend is our 21st anniversary of our first date.
[00:41:19] We have been married for 19 years and we opened a relationship. Oh. In 2006. I think it was, it was like 2005 or 2006. So the, the majority of the time we've been together, we have, we have been Holly and it just keeps getting
[00:41:41] Roger: better.
[00:41:42] Antonio: Lovely. Happily say, I'm, I'm more in love than the day I got
[00:41:45] Rita: married. Oh yeah, it has.
[00:41:48] It's been a journey. and we argue a lot and that's probably part of the reason why we're actually happy to be together.
[00:41:57] Antonio: we're getting better at it though.
[00:41:58] Rita: Experience don't, uh, maybe less holes in the walls, but that's another topic all together.
[00:42:04] Rebecca: Do you guys ever find it challenging to describe your relationship to other people?
[00:42:10] Antonio: No. I mean
[00:42:12] Rita: the poly part or
[00:42:13] Antonio: I, I would say that it's. As far as like the style of poly that we
[00:42:20] Roger: do,
[00:42:22] Antonio: there seems to be a style that's based on a lot of pre-processing and post-processing with any interaction with anyone else. And we're not that style. We trust each other and do our thing and maybe discuss it.
[00:42:41] I mean, I certainly bounce experiences off Rita for just to read on, on how I'm interpreting something, but it's not so much asking permission is just checking, just letting her know where I'm at with somebody.
[00:43:04] Rebecca: That's really neat. I've actually myself. I've found that oftentimes my poly partners are the best advisors that I have and my other relationships.
[00:43:12] Yeah. Cause they know me and they know my strengths. Their weaknesses. Right?
[00:43:18] Rita: I mean, I, I, I wouldn't wanna say that we are not like super communicative. We like part of, part of it, I think, is being communicative upfront and essentially saying these are the parameters and, you know, and there's still things like, you know, there have been times where Antonio has been interested in someone and I'm like, that person is from hell.
[00:43:38] I mean, or I, you know, we, we do have veto power to a certain degree, you know, mm-hmm, , I, you know, I've, I've had relationships that were honestly not great and Antonio could kind of see it all along. And it took me a while. And, and by the time I actually was able to kind of extract myself from, from those relationships.
[00:43:59] I, you know, it, it went really far in actually making us be closer together and making it and kind of priming us for future like alternate relationships. It, I think the main thing is that we don't. Don't think the best word is micromanage. We do not expect to micromanage each other's alternate relationships.
[00:44:21] Like this is what we trust each other. And we, you know, if you have, if you got questions, if you wanna talk about it, that's great. If you have, if we, if you wanna ask me advice, that's also great. I don't need to see all your texts. it's like, and I really, I mean, and I know some people who do that and it seems like it works for them, but I don't think I just, I don't think we need it.
[00:44:41] I think we have enough of an anchor of, of a foundation in our primary ship that we don't need that. So, yeah. Um, and I think that's part of the difference that I've seen with some other experiences that I, that I, that I kind of have watched other people have is that I've definitely known folks over the years that have kind of explor.
[00:45:01] This type of relationship, where I felt to myself, you guys are not really ready for this. And not that I'm like we are ready more. It's more so that I feel like you, you really gotta, like, you have to really trust the person you're entering into it with. And I've seen people enter into it for what I feel like are the wrong reasons.
[00:45:20] And it's sort of like on one hand, you know, you do you, but on the other hand, I really believe there are good things that can come of relationships like this. And if everyone could be just a little bit more thoughtful, then, you know, we wouldn't have some of the poly boot camp disasters that we see occasionally this particular group in general, we don't really see those, which is fabulous because it reminds me regularly that this is a, this is a good thing.
[00:45:49] This is a positive thing. This is a way to share experiences in ways that normally you'd be kind of isolated. Like even if you have a life partner, they're your partner. That's that's it really? And not saying not to trivialize that, but it's like, I love the idea of being able to share your partnership with other partners, because then you've got, you know, it's like the whole, it takes a village to raise a kid it's kind of similar.
[00:46:12] It takes a, it takes a village to have what I feel is the richest kind of relationship.
[00:46:19] Rebecca: Yeah, I know what you mean about people starting this type of relationship for the wrong reason. I used to tell all of my friends, cause most of my friends are not poly and have been most of my life that when they're getting to the point where their relationship is going sour and they're like, well, if we just opened it up, that might save it.
[00:46:37] Like, Hey look, if you can't have one successful relationship, you can't have two or more. Yeah. Mm-hmm because it's exponentially more complicated. Yes, absolutely.
[00:46:46] Antonio: If, if our, if we felt that our relationship was in danger, we would close it. Not the other way around because ours is our priority. And also to that end, I would add slight tangent.
[00:47:02] But when we took divorce off the table as a. threat to throw at each other in fights and arguments that really significantly like noticeably changed the dynamic of our relationship because we really realized, uh, a commitment for life. And now we're, we're more invested in we're thoroughly invested, I would say in figuring out a way through whatever shit storm we find ourselves in at the moment.
[00:47:44] And so that's, that's pretty, yeah, that made a big difference. Like now we fight, that's not part of the conversation. We're just, we're gonna work through it. And maybe that isn't today. Maybe we gotta sleep on it and figure it out tomorrow, but we're, we're not okay. Fine. You know? Then move out.
[00:48:10] Rebecca: I'm curious, you said took divorce off the table.
[00:48:12] How did you do that? Just an agreement or mm-hmm well,
[00:48:16] Rita: is it because one day we say I am an extreme I'm I'm an extremist and I am definitely the kind of person that, especially in the beginning, towards the beginning of a relationship, I essentially under the belief that if he, if, if we can't make every little ass freaking piece work, then we shouldn't be together.
[00:48:33] That's just the way it is. And so I, that was largely because I'm the one who threw that down a lot and maybe we should not be together at all. And essentially, and then when we were, you know, in less heated moments and we were actually have a conversation. we, we, we kind of got to the bottom of, you know, what, actually, I would rather probably deal with anything in the entire world than walk away from you.
[00:48:57] That's I don't, I, I think all things are, are worth way, the exception of a few extreme things, but all things are worth us trying to work out and, oh, which, which includes things like, you know, these, some occasional Antonio is, is bless him. Not known for having horrendous poly experiences, his, of all, for the most part, you know, even if they don't.
[00:49:23] Last for a long time, have all been, have all been relatively positive. I, on the other hand, I'm not, I've had to learn to be better at, and now I'm, it's been actually several years since I've been in another committed relationship, but it's, I'm comfortable with that. It's kind of, I, and where I am now is to be in is to be open to the idea, but I'm, I'm, I'm not in a hurry to, to, to find cause I've, cause I've never been like that.
[00:49:48] Anyway, he, I found, he literally kind of popped out at me at pike place market. I did not know of his existence until he said good morning to me one day. And that's just kind of how I am. And so I, for me to actually even consider having this sort relationship with another human is like huge. When you consider the fact that I, you know, spend most of my time in my head.
[00:50:10] Um, so I may not be as active with it, but it's still, it is still the mentality that I, I share. And still the, the belief that I have, that that is best. As I said to him, like my mom, my, so I have five brothers and sisters and I, how I explained this to my mother, um, bless her was . I said, it's not. I said, it's kind of like having multiple children like you don't.
[00:50:33] And I know that some people aren't good at this, but my mom, I felt was very good at it. You don't split your love into little chunks. You multiply it, you make more, and that way you have enough for everybody. And when you in a situation like this, like Antonio gets all of my love when I am with him. But I, when I am with other people, they get a whole bunch of my love too.
[00:50:53] They don't get quite as much cuz he's my primary, but they still, but I'm not splitting it up. I'm not. And I feel that really, when it comes to these kinds of relationships, you kind of can tell when one isn't quite working, when you feel like you have you're splitting it up, you're chunking it up. And I'm like, That's not how I wanna do this.
[00:51:10] I mean, and it's except unless that's something you've agreed to. And I feel, I feel like we are, we've both been pretty good at, at least in, in finding partners that kind of agreed to the same thing. Again, Antonio is way better at, than me with me. I, I learned, I kind of learned the hard way, like what, what not to do.
[00:51:29] And it was like painful at the time, but it made, I learned so much from it that it was now that it's been 10 years, it was worth it. now I, now I know what not to do and what, and what to ask for and how to ask for it. And I don't think I would've learned all that without that experience.
[00:51:48] Antonio: Do you mind if I share how I expressed to you at the end of your relationship?
[00:51:58] Rita: Yes. I mean, no, I don't
[00:51:59] Antonio: go ahead. Okay. Rita's last relationship was four years long in love. It was getting, I felt like my queen wasn't being respected by her other partner. Not only was Rita settling for less from her partner as he deprioritized her for more and other partners, but her, her stress over that was causing her to view me as a shoulder to cry on about her other relationship rather than having a relationship with me.
[00:52:42] And so finally, instead of when, when it got to a point where I had to. Make a call. Uh, I didn't tell her what to do. I told her what I was going to do. What I needed was a partner who was going to be in a partnership with me. And I was, I was feeling just like, like, I certainly want to support my partner in, you know, if she's having a tough moment, but when it's for a year or more of the same, it wasn't a moment stress
[00:53:20] Yeah. Um, I was like, okay, I need to be in a partnership with somebody who's in a partnership with me and this isn't. And if you need to be continuing this relationship with him, you do what you need to do. I'm not gonna tell you what to do with your relationship, but I am going to need to step away because this isn't a partnership between us anymore.
[00:53:46] When, the only conversations we have are about your stress with him. And she pulled her head out of his ass and dumped him. And, uh, and I got
[00:54:00] Roger: my wife back
[00:54:00] Rita: and it was awesome. Um, and I was, I, I felt, you know, it was, Antonio was giving me an ultimatum. It made him and like I was angry, but he was so obviously right.
[00:54:11] And it was the kind of thing where we me, this, this, this other person we had tentatively ended the relationship, but it was kind of teetering on, well, maybe we can try again. Well, maybe blah, blah. And I knew in giant, big, bold black letters in my mind end it. Now I knew I knew this. I was just having a very hard time reconciling all of myself with it.
[00:54:36] And so him coming in saying that it made me really angry and he was absolutely right. And that was what I I had to do. And it was really hard. but it was also, it was really hard and it stayed really hard for several months. But interestingly, despite the fact that that relationship had been longer than the other ones that I'd had before it, I healed from that faster because the being able to say, okay, I've had enough of this crap.
[00:55:05] I need to extricate myself right now was this magnificent explosion of like healing just self-healing that I didn't realize was possible. And I'm glad in retrospect, I am really glad that it happened the way it did, because I don't know if I would've had, I don't. I think being me being forced to do that was a really good idea.
[00:55:26] And it just, it, it really made me realize, well, first of all, this is the person who is my anchor and it's, he is my priority. And also that then after him, I should be the priority like, and then, and then me and then the other people that I'm involved with and. I life is too short to, to actually hand myself over to someone who isn't going to value me the same way.
[00:55:53] Never settle, never settle, which is if it's not awesome, well, it doesn't have to be awesome all the time. You know, it just has to, it just has to work. It's a blessing. Yes, it, well, that's it, it has to be a blessing. And the thing is everything is a blessing. Like everything that's beautiful is a blessing.
[00:56:09] Whether it's like the right amount of wasabi or , or like this beautiful grilled salmon or this flower that opened, or the paint color that we chose for the house, which is orange. So our house looks like a pumpkin and they're all different levels of you can have all different levels of a blessing. And that's that, even if it's challenging, even if it's challenging, like, like if
[00:56:32] Antonio: I'm learning something
[00:56:34] Rita: that's value, that's it is a value.
[00:56:36] It is valuable. And there, you know, there are. I might, you know, be usually more fond of animals than the end of people, but the people that I do really, that I do, like, I really like, and I feel like it would be a waste to not be able to forge those connections with people. Yeah. So,
[00:56:55] Antonio: and I'm like a couple of my closest friends in this community period, best friends are my ex-girlfriends.
[00:57:04] I wouldn't trade that for the world. That's, you know, even if our initial romantic encounter was six months, I've had years since of an even closer relationship and that's
[00:57:18] Rebecca: been awesome. I found the same thing. I feel like, you know, when a relationship transitions, especially in my poly world and it, it usually transitions to something even better, no matter what it is, One of my exes is now in a monogamous relationship with a woman he met while we were dating.
[00:57:36] And it was so easy to be like, you wanna do that? Go do that, go ahead. Do
[00:57:40] Rita: that
[00:57:40] Rebecca: conversion conversion. And so now about once a year we have breakfast and we talk and he usually ends up asking me a bunch of sex advice, questions, which is so fun. Mm-hmm and it's, it's a blessing. Yeah.
[00:57:56] Antonio: Yeah. And we get better at sex because you know, more experienced, more
[00:58:01] "Mr. Sailor Moon": input.
[00:58:03] Rita: Exactly. Yeah. I haven't, I haven't been as good at, at choosing partners that I want to stay more with. Although I, one of them, I am still friends with,
[00:58:12] Antonio: you're shocked at the idea that I would ever want to.
[00:58:15] Rita: I just couldn't believe that I was just like, how could you possibly be friends now that it's been, you know, it's been years that aside from this one last like super trauma.
[00:58:23] I, I am. Friends on some level with, with all of my previous partners and yes, I like them better. Now. I did. I didn't realize it's interesting because I, you know, there's so much, there was so much emotion involved at, at the time that I didn't realize that I didn't even really know this person enough to, to really love them as much as I think I did.
[00:58:43] And I knew them a lot better now. And I'm comfortable with the relationship that I have with them, which is something that I didn't think I could be able to do at the time. So,
[00:58:52] "Mr. Sailor Moon": yeah.
[00:58:53] Rebecca: Well, that's really beautiful. Thank you both so much for coming in and sharing and I think we've got some really great stuff in here.
[00:59:02] cool. Yeah. I mean, other questions, I think we better give Hillary back that, her room
[00:59:08] Rita: all thank you for the opportunity. Yeah.
[00:59:13] Rebecca: Hey, they a Pleasure seeker. Well, that's at fish day's conversation here at Pleasure Central Radio. We love using conscious communication, science geekery and copious amounts of true Pleasure to improve our partnerships, our money and our love lives.
[00:59:29] And we hope you do too. If you loved what you heard here, we'd love a review. You can do this easily on podcast players like Spotify and apple podcast. It only takes a couple of seconds and it's an easy way to help more people discover the show without you having to actually bring it up. To hear other episodes of the podcast and get notified immediately when a new episode is released.
[00:59:52] Follow me on your favorite podcast player. Find out more and get in touch at Pleasure. Central Radio dot com. Your thought to ponder today is
[01:00:01] Rose: threesomes are kind of hard cuz you know, one person often gets left out and they were like, but what if maybe you just get all the focus on you? And I was like, okay, I'll try that.
[01:00:12] Sure. and so it felt like all of the attention toward Pleasure was on me. Like I got to direct. What was going on?
[01:00:23] Rita: It was amazing.
[01:00:28] Rebecca: Thanks for listening to Pleasure Central Radio hosted by Rebecca Tran. Thanks to our guests. Rose Roger, Mr. SA moon, Antonio, and Rita for their willingness to share their experiences and their stories. So intimately and to all the other unnamed hosts and sexy participants who created a space for beauty, sexy art, and thoughtful and responsible play.
[01:00:53] Thank you. Rebecca also gets significant creative feedback from her beta listener group for this episode. Special. Thanks. Go to Sam for the encouragement and Sandy waters for the clarity and to anyone else we might have missed. You are loved. We look forward to your company on the next episode, Chao.